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Why The Ecm Mech Choices Are Stupid-Pants


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#1 LoneUnknown

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:13 AM

Edit with TL;DR - Why would anyone bother using any variants of the Raven, Commando, Cicada or Atlas other then the ECM variant, when the ECM variants were the best to begin with?




As with any piece of powerful, exclusive gear, players are going to gravitate toward the most effective setups which can utilize ECM.

ECM is VERY powerful... I will leave it at that so that this does not become an "ECM is overpowered" thread.

This is why we see such a massive influx of 2D commandos, 3L ravens, 3M cicadas, and DC atlases on the field.

What we see, is a shift in diversity. Not only in the chassis being used, but the variants of the ECM carrying chassis as well.

Why? Because not only is ECM something you want (need) to have, the particular variants they were given to are (with one exception) regarded as the best of the chassis, and were the best choice to use even BEFORE ECM was added:


Commando 2D - With commando variants, everything is identical except hardpoint configuration. Having three missile and one energy hardpoints, allowing the 2D to become a mini streak-boat, the 2D is and always was the best, even before ECM was introduced. (Haven't tried it yet? Keep reading for the "how to" on the ultimate TROLOLOLMANDO)

Raven 3L - Raven variants actually have different speed caps, and the 4x can mount jump jets. Of the 3, it is the 3L which moves the fastest (for all intents and purposes can keep up with jenners). By having the best hardpoint layout, with the most missile points and zero ballistics (cmon, ballistics on a light is simply a novelty), and the aforementioned speed advantage, the 3L is and always was the best, even before ECM was introduced.

Cicada 3M - Now I will admit, I have not completed my cicada grind and do not know all the nuances. Assuming all speed caps are the same (input needed) the 2A appears superior with 6 energy hardpoints, over the 3Ms 4 energy hardpoints and 1 ballistic. This would be the exception that I mentioned earlier.

Atlas D-DC - All Atlases are great, with the only one hovering the line of "worst" being the overpriced and under-hardpointed K. The DC has for quite some time been considered one of, if not THE best, for its 3 missile hardpoints. So once again, the preferred and most used variant before ECM was introduced.


What we have is a situation, where a clear "best" variant arises in 3 of the 4 ECM mechs. This accomplishes 2 unfortunate side effects:

1 - Limitation to player choices and diversity by presenting a clearly superior variant representing each class.

2 - Non-ECM variants becoming a liability to teams AND a chore to play / level, not only because they lack ECM, but because they are less combat effective then the ECM version would be even without ECM!


If you ask me, the ECM-capable mechs should be less combat effective then other variants of the chassis. There is currently zero incentive for a player to select a non-ECM version of a particular chassis over the ECM version of the same chassis... clearly the ECM one is the best BY FAR. The only time you will see the non-ECM versions out there is when people are forcing themselves through the grind, a product of the poorly designed XP system.

The Cicada is the only instance where this feels CLOSE to being right. The Commando and Raven though? Oh man. It's night and day going from the ECM to non-ECM variants.





On the chance you do not believe me, and since leveling requires playing through the different variants anyway, I offer you to try:

LONEUNKOWN'S NON-ECM CHALLENGE ™

Phase 1 - Purchase and equip a 3L Raven OR 2D Commando (Commando guide below!)

Phase 2 - Kick *** until you amass enough XP for master (that would be completing first tier, and banking 43,000xp for second and third tier, if not already unlocked). Pay notice to how much fun you have, how awesome you feel, and how great your stats will look.

Phase 3 - Purchase and equip a different variant of the chassis you selected in phase 1 (if taking the commando route and feeling particularly masochistic, select the 1D)

Phase 4 - Play the new variant as long as you can, in the attempt to earn as much XP as you did with the ECM variant. Once again, pay attention to things like feelings of fun, awesomeness, and your overall performance via stats.


(Disclamer: LoneUnknown does not endorse or hold responsibility or liability for any side effects to the player by taking part of the NON-ECM CHALLENGE ™, including but not limited to: frustration, madness, broken game peripherals, spousal conflict, incoherent shouting, overuse of expletives, substance abuse, conversions in faith, and the kicking of puppies)



BONUS

Ultimate TROLOLOLMANDO guide!

Commando 2D

200XL engine

Ferro Fibrosis
Endo Steel
STANDARD heat sinks (engine + 2 extra)

Max Armor

x3 streak SRM2s
3 tons ammo
ECM

Modules = Whatever you want.. this is some OP shizz. 360 targeting and capture accelerator if you really want my opinion and want to spend the money (I personally did not)

Fire group 1 = All three streaks in chain fire
Fire group 2 = All three streaks alpha strike


Keep ECM in disrupt mode at all times and keep using your speed, and you will be murder to any non-ecm light.

Although you can operate somewhat independently, stay close enough to your team where you can easily pull back to them, and dont dive into the middle of their ranks thinking you are invincible.

Eliminate the enemy ECM first, then you can have your way with the rest of them.

If supported by your team and want to take down an enemy ECM that has wandered into your ranks, switch to counter mode and streak away.

Use terrain, use cover, keep moving, hit and run, stay alive. You will start racking up 500+ damage and 3, 4 or more kills per match. Have fun!



.

Edited by LoneUnknown, 08 December 2012 - 11:02 AM.


#2 Ozric

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:17 AM

Forget everything he just said about the 2D, as a LRM boat I can confirm that this all a pack of lies.





He's stupid pants...

#3 nom de guerre

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:24 AM

View PostOzric, on 08 December 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

Forget everything he just said about the 2D, as a LRM boat I can confirm that this all a pack of lies.





He's stupid pants...

lol

#4 LoneUnknown

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:27 AM

View PostOzric, on 08 December 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

Forget everything he just said about the 2D, as a LRM boat I can confirm that this all a pack of lies.





He's stupid pants...



NO U

Have fun flailing about in lockdown mode when my 2D is in your face jamming your targeting.

2D eats LRM boats for breakfast then spits them out because they lack the proper nutrients.

#5 Ozric

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:32 AM

View PostLoneUnknown, on 08 December 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:



NO U

Have fun flailing about in lockdown mode when my 2D is in your face jamming your targeting.

2D eats LRM boats for breakfast then spits them out because they lack the proper nutrients.


Sulfur is a nutrient!

#6 AvatarofWhat

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:37 AM

I have to agree with the OP... playing the other commando variants besides the 2D is a chore. Can't wait till I never have to touch them again. You are easy prey for any ecm-equipped lights with streaks. Personally I care less about being able to use my own streaks on the other commando variants then I care about the enemy streaks being able to chew through my paper-thin armor. At least with heavier mechs I can run away and use hit and run tactics if they have streaks. If I get a raven-3L on my back I dont even have that luxury since its so much faster then the other variants.

#7 LoneUnknown

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:48 AM

View PostSomersetStriker, on 08 December 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

I do agree if a mech only has LRMs and/or SRMs the lights can be such a ******, however regardless of ECM.

I just don't see ECM being the big deal here. More or less its how the mech your playing is equipped and how the team is working or not working together.

Still, there are times when a light can't be seen and it keeps shooting at you and that is thanks to ECM.


Take the challenge.

You know you want to.

Do it.

#8 Snib

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:38 AM

OP, you forgot to self-like one of you posts. A bit more diligence please, Internet forum reputation is serious business.

#9 LoneUnknown

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

View PostSnib, on 08 December 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

OP, you forgot to self-like one of you posts. A bit more diligence please, Internet forum reputation is serious business.


Clearly you mad.

My practice was to give every reply in the thread a like, good or bad. Went along with the tone.

You, however, are the exception. Thank you for the bump.

#10 CooCooKachoo

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

Bahahahha I wish I had read this just before I bought my first com thinking it could equip an ECM....

Just played a game with the 1D tho with it in full use and was way more amusing than I thought it would be!

Kept a MPL and only had 2 tons ammo tho for the ssrm's, was gonna go for DHS but now thinking maybe the armor boost might be nice...not sure yet.

Thanks for the laughs OP

#11 Tennex

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

they just put it on the most expensive variant in each chassis group. It doesn't make sense in balance because its money grubbing and that makes sense for PGI.

money>balance and thas why im worried this will become a P2W

Edited by Tennex, 11 December 2012 - 06:04 PM.


#12 LoneUnknown

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:37 PM

View PostCooCooKachoo, on 11 December 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Bahahahha I wish I had read this just before I bought my first com thinking it could equip an ECM....

Just played a game with the 1D tho with it in full use and was way more amusing than I thought it would be!

Kept a MPL and only had 2 tons ammo tho for the ssrm's, was gonna go for DHS but now thinking maybe the armor boost might be nice...not sure yet.

Thanks for the laughs OP



For the 1D use double heat sinks so that you can fire your LAY ZORZ continuously.

My 2D TROLOLOLMANDO requires single heat sinks to balance the critical space with the need to drop weight (ferro fibrosis) to squeeze in the 200xl engine. That and streaks are inherently cooler running then lasers.

#13 Tolkien

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:30 PM

The TROLOLOL 2D is damn correct.

I remember when the patch coming out that people were saying that it was great that they had gotten rid of streak cats. Now holy hells, a commando 2D is way harder to hit by far and can carry both 3x StreakSRM2 and has a bloody ECM!

In the past when lights would run out in the open I would gladly put some LRMs on them, now they have a lot less to worry about.

When we see the first hero mech with an ECM we'll know what will be super popular.

#14 Jedi Outcast

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:39 PM

I agree on most points, at the very least, mech variants with ECM should have a lower speed coefficient.

As you said, the cicada and raven with ECM are way too fast (commandos are a box of tissues with legs, so their speed is necessary).

ECM isn't overpowered, but the mechs that can use it are way too capable, there needs to be a draw back to using ECM (besides the 1.5 tons, and 2 crits) and reducing the speed of the mech is the way to go.

One point I'd like to make, once the netcode comes up to par, fighting lights in general will be way easier.

Edited by Interrogator, 16 December 2012 - 02:51 PM.


#15 Revo13

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:48 AM

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite

/end thread

/end useless infantile rants

#16 Logen Ninefingers

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:22 AM

View PostLoneUnknown, on 11 December 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:



For the 1D use double heat sinks so that you can fire your LAY ZORZ continuously.

My 2D TROLOLOLMANDO requires single heat sinks to balance the critical space with the need to drop weight (ferro fibrosis) to squeeze in the 200xl engine. That and streaks are inherently cooler running then lasers.


Don't go FF it only gives you half a ton. Endosteel gives u 1 ton, I always prefer Endo over FF.

#17 GrimmwolfGB

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:56 AM

The commando 2d is damn mean, but a raven 3l is its bane, same speed and more armor, two streaks and ml. Against larger mechs, however, the commando is preferable as it is much harder to hit.
The other commando variants were a pain in the butt.

The other ravens variants without ecm are not that bad, I enjoyed playing them, same with the cicadas.

#18 LoneUnknown

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:50 PM

View PostKottlewski, on 08 January 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:


Don't go FF it only gives you half a ton. Endosteel gives u 1 ton, I always prefer Endo over FF.


This isn't an either / or situation.

The build takes both to cut down on weight and fit in all the OPness





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