41 replies to this topic

[An0n3]

...in the game so far. Not of all time, just from what's available. To give you some background why I want to know this:

I've been hearing complaints that Catapults and Jenners are OP HAX GOD TIER NERF THEY on the interbutts. In true scrub fashion, people would rather things they can't handle get nerfed than try to come up with counter strategies or see other mechs get buffed.

So I'd like to know what the worst mech/variant combination in the game is at the moment, according to the community, and roll with it to prove a point.

In my opinion there aren't any "good" or "bad" mechs on the table yet, considering how flexible everything is and how much customization we've got, but that's me. I'm probably not alone on that and kudos to you if you agree with me...

But for sake of argument, which mech and variant is worst?

[Eisenhorne]

uh... I'd give that prize to the Cicada with 4 ballistic slots and 1 energy slot. Because if there is anything 40 ton mechs need, its multiple autocannons.

[DegeneratePervert]

The "K" variant of the Atlas. Call me crazy, but the idea of putting a super fragile engine inside of a very tall easy to hit mech makes no sense to me.

[Vechs]

DegeneratePervert, on 05 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

The "K" variant of the Atlas. Call me crazy, but the idea of putting a super fragile engine inside of a very tall easy to hit mech makes no sense to me.

I turned my K into a "Fast Vanguard".

Maxed engine, max armor, weapons are secondary.

62 kph, 4 Mpulse, 1 SRM6, 2 AMS.

It does at least have the sinks to alpha all day long.

And at 62 kph, it moves like a medium mech.

[MadPanda]

DegeneratePervert, on 05 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

The "K" variant of the Atlas. Call me crazy, but the idea of putting a super fragile engine inside of a very tall easy to hit mech makes no sense to me.

You are crazy. He didn't say he was gonna roll with the stock build. The atlas K can be customized to be very effective, although in comparison to the other atlases it is indeed the weakest.

The crappiest mech I own is the dragon 5N. Sure you can ignore the 3 ballistic hard points in the arm and just put one gauss or something on it, but if you want a challenge then use the 5N dragons all ballistic hardpoints.

[Lanessar]

The ballistic Cicada (3C) gets my vote. It has two useful weapon slot - you could not hope to fill the others with anything but MGs. I suppose someone stripping it down to bare bones might fit 2xAC/2, or run a Gauss (with almost no ammo, no other frills, possibly one SL). Of the variants, I can see every other being used with at least some sort of effectiveness.

[John MatriX82]

+1 for the 5N, I only had a little fun with it putting a UAC5+AC5, 2 mplas in the other arm and some SRM4 or 6 i don't remember. Other than xping it, I have gladly kept 1N and 1C.. got rid of the 5N as soon as i could.

I never considered to even run a Cicada, but reading now that there's a variant with a mess of ballistics well.. that's a joke

Regarding the K, back in the 2 days of Artemis madness before the hotfix, running 4 of those in group with 2 AMS in each was like going around with the space shield lol

[Mithos]

If you can cram a pair of ac/2 and a pair of SL into raven 4x, then you definitely can do the same with cicada - as it is 5t heavier.
And regarding dragon 5n - you can cram 3 ac/2! And a pair of ML in left hand, running this ultra-heavy machinegun on 280XL engine. Just don't chain all 3 ac's in one weapon group, they cooldown too fast for it.

[Zeke Steiner]

Lanessar, on 05 December 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

The ballistic Cicada (3C) gets my vote. It has two useful weapon slot - you could not hope to fill the others with anything but MGs. I suppose someone stripping it down to bare bones might fit 2xAC/2, or run a Gauss (with almost no ammo, no other frills, possibly one SL). Of the variants, I can see every other being used with at least some sort of effectiveness.

I run a 3C with AC/2's and LLaser, the thing can do respectable damage. Problem is it only has 2 tons (150) shots total so you have to be a bit more careful with your shots. Course I sank about 6 million c-bills total into the thing if you count the XL engine. Is about as much fun as using an LBX/10 ^ ^
I also think that thing might be my best mech I've ever used..... I think...

Edited by Zeke Steiner, 06 December 2012 - 02:58 AM.

[Mattiator]

The -1D variant of the Commando. You never see it on the field, with good reason. It has some of the most horrendous hardpoints of any 'Mech in the game. 2 missile hardpoints in the center torso means you can't stack anything bigger than SRM-4s, and 2 laser hardpoints in the right arm makes your main punch humorously easy to blow off.

[Raidyr]

Mattiator, on 06 December 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

The -1D variant of the Commando. You never see it on the field, with good reason. It has some of the most horrendous hardpoints of any 'Mech in the game. 2 missile hardpoints in the center torso means you can't stack anything bigger than SRM-4s, and 2 laser hardpoints in the right arm makes your main punch humorously easy to blow off.

Any answer that isn't this is objectively wrong. Terrible mech, terrible hardpoints.

[Tesunie]

Lanessar, on 05 December 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

The ballistic Cicada (3C) gets my vote. It has two useful weapon slot - you could not hope to fill the others with anything but MGs. I suppose someone stripping it down to bare bones might fit 2xAC/2, or run a Gauss (with almost no ammo, no other frills, possibly one SL). Of the variants, I can see every other being used with at least some sort of effectiveness.

I run that same Cicada with an AC 20, respectable speed (91 kph) and maxed armor on the torso and bumped up armor on the legs. (With three tons of ammo.) I could also run with with an AC 10 and a meduim pulse laser as well, though I didn't find that to my liking. I could also in theory run with two AC2s as well, and I think two tons of ammo. Play it as, if and when I run out of ammo, go for a capture or run around the field to distract, even if I have no weapons left. Do that after someone blew up my AC 20 anyway. Or an AC 5 and a Large Laser/meduim depending on weight, one in each side so I'm not putting all my weapons in one place to get blown off. That mech has enough weight, and slots for a lot of different options. I sacrificed my speed by a little, got Endo-steel frame and FF armour to cut wieght down. You'd be amazed what you can get away with when customizing!

It's all on how you wish to custom the mech. I sacrificed a little speed to gain a big punch. I actually count on pilots like you to look at my Cicada and say "why shoot that?" Then I start railing in to you with that AC 20. I find, people ignore me unless I'm the only target, till that AC starts to spit out massive amounts of lead. Then suddenly I become a target and everyone focuses on me. It's like the AC 20 makes me a bigger threat than that Atlas they use to be shooting at.



Worse mech probably is the Commando -1D for the reasons someone stated above. But yet, it can also be very useful. My brother runs a -1D (I think), and he's used it well as a support mech. A meduim Laser, and two LRMs, one 5 one 10. With ECM, he might be finding his build changing a bit, but it can have some good uses.

Though I do want to say, don't under estimate SRMs. They have a lot of punch to them as well. I've been tempted to run a Jenner with two SRM 6 and having whatever lasers I can fit after that. I intend to use the SRMs as my main weapon. Maybe even streak them, but with ECM I don't know if I wish to do streak anymore. Have to consider that a bit first... Maybe test run it and see how it works.

[ICEFANG13]

Many players consider the Dragon, the Centurion, and the Awesome to be lacking, although I actually find them more enjoyable than others in their weight class. I would agree that the 3 ballistic Dragon is at a disadvantage, but isn't as bad as light mechs with ballistic hard points they can't really use. The 4G Hunchback has 3 slots its unlikely to be able to use, especially with it all in the same place, and the Cent-D and Yen Lo Wang have 2 in the same arm, this is getting into the area of possible, but probably not needed.

I have to give it to either the Raven-2X, the 4X, the Cicada-3M, or 3C.

The 3M Cicada, first of all, can use ECM, which is a bonus for sure. In my eyes, that easily makes it better than the other 3. However, its completely viable too. You can run a near max armor, max engine, 4 Medium Lasers and 1 A/C-2 w/2 tons of ammo. Instead of the alpha 30 of the 2A, it does less damage at once, but more DPS at slower targets, it can be a fast killer if you ignore it. I give the 3M 4th worse, but personally, anything at this point or higher (anything not below), is at least useable and potentially good, if not outclassed by something else.

The Raven 2X is limited to a max 245 engine, and it suffers greatly for it, it's just pointless to use over the Jenner-K, Jenner-D, and the 3L, because if they want to sacrifice engine size for weight, they can, but don't have to. It also don't have Jump Jets, which makes it terrible in comparison. But its still passable, as at least it can be effective, it can do some damage, and, although outclassed, isn't 100% worthless (3rd place).

The Raven 4X has JJ's, which is a bonus, but is also limited to the 245 engine, which is a huge weakness for he Raven, and it will be hard to dedicate 2.5 tons for the jump jets. Overall, it would be better than the 2X, but its ballistic slots are terrible. In the arm together, its impossible or very hard to run the lol-janky builds with 2 gauss (for example), and since the machine gun is worthless, the A/C-2 can be used as the Cicada, but it cannot effectively use both slots for the A/C-2. Which if you want a moderate Raven-4X, you could only use 2 lasers (2 less than the Cicada), and really are stuck to the 1 ballistics anyway, in theory, it can also hold a SRM-2 with a ton of ammo to be equal to the 2 medium lasers you are probably using on the 3M Cicada, but once again, the 4X has to sacrifice engine, while the Cicada can choose to or not, I give the 4X the 2nd worse mech in game.

The Cicada-3C is by far the worst mech in the game, and I like it for its terribleness, but its obvious to anyone going for master Cicada, that this will be a nightmare. First of all, as said, Machine Guns are 100% worthless, with 4 on this 3C, you have a DPS of 1.6... which weighs, at a minimum, 3 tons, and will run out of that 1 ton (in the example) ammo very quickly. Its out DPSed, and alpha striked (obviously, as the Machine Gun does very little damage in a single shot, .04 I think) by 2 Small Lasers, or 2 Mediums, or 1 Large, or it compares to the 1.25 DPS of the Medium Laser, and that Laser only weighs one, and can be fired forever alone (<lulz). Its "this could work, but doesn't at all" starting package is 4 MG's and a PPC, ideally, it would be a fast sniper with moderate damage, and a close range punch, but instead, its just worthless. Going past that, you would have a lot of trouble running 2 A/C-2's in it, and the 3M is just better for the 1 and the lasers. Best case is probably 2, no lasers, and maybe 3 tons of ammo. Worthless mech, you can't use all the hard points at all, so the other mechs (the Cent, the Hunch, the 4X), have a much better shot of using all their slots, and if they don't want to, they still out DPS you on their other slots. There is literally no reason to use this Cicada, so I'm giving it the worst mech in game **** prize!

(To the poster above)

The Jenner cannot run 2 SRM 6's, only 2 SRM 4's. However, the 3L can use 2 SRM-6, and it can use ECM and Artemis if you wanted to.

Edited by ICEFANG13, 06 December 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[Tesunie]

I still think an AC 20 on a Cidada can be a good punch, but seen as I feild the Cicada that you think is so bad, I have to agree that being limited to only one laser slot does hurt a little. I can't change to a more energy variant on a fly if I wished. But I do like it. I'm having a lot of fun with it so far.

I don't have a Jenner yet, so I don't know what I would be able to do for weapons at the moment. Though, I'm sure I could probably get Endo-steel frame and FF armour and maybe squeeze 2 SRM 6s, but more than likely will stay with SRM 4s instead. It's one of those concept ideas I want to try out and see how it works.
As far as using the Raven over the Jenner, I'd have to agree with ECM, but I'm an old time Jenner fan, and I use to be an expert with the mech on Mechwarrior 2. But then I had 2 PPCs instead and was a master at snipping with those PPCs. Dasher's running along the horizon beware. (I also used the old splash damage from that game's version of the PPC to my own advantage, sometimes aiming at the ground, espesually against fast mechs, to blow off a leg.) I do admit, I only played MW2 in single player mode, so I don't know how I'd deal with a person on that game. But the cumputer tended to be good sniping material, even at an evasive run.

Sorry. Reminicing there for a few. Ignore me and my old age.
This game here, I'm still learning the aiming curve and shooting accuracy. I'm not the sniper I've been in the other games in this one. Yet.

Edited by Tesunie, 06 December 2012 - 09:19 AM.

[An0n3]

After looking it over, I'm leaning towards the COM-1D as mentioned twice in the thread already.

It'll take some finesse, but a fully upgraded build with a 210XL engine, two medium pulse lasers, two SRM4's, a single ton of ammo (ack!) and 10 double heatsinks might be enough to sprint around and stab people in the rear. It's got just enough wiggle room left to upgrade the armor a touch...but not a whole lot.

Edited by An0n3, 06 December 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[FrostCollar]

An0n3, on 06 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

After looking it over, I'm leaning towards the COM-1D as mentioned twice in the thread already.

It'll take some finesse, but a fully upgraded build with a 210XL engine, two medium pulse lasers, two SRM4's, a single ton of ammo (ack!) and 10 double heatsinks might be enough to sprint around and stab people in the rear. It's got just enough wiggle room left to upgrade the armor a touch...but not a whole lot.

Here's the trouble - if you want 2MPLs and 2 SRM4s then both the Jenner D and the Raven 3L have you covered and can carry those loadouts without having to make such crippling sacrifices (that 1 ton of ammo isn't going to last very long) and both can do so with a much higher top speed. I think it gets my vote for worst variant.

[Cerlin]

I think the YLW may be kinda crappy because of only 4 slots on a medium. I love the mech but still, its sub optimal. MY AL is faster, cheaper, and hits harder. The Cent-D is faster than either... But yeah I still like it but not "best." People do like to die to my Guass tho.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

About those ballistics on cicada/dragon.We will probably see 2 ballistic slots on Flea(20 ton mech )

[Snowcaller]

My Phract 4X.
I thought it would have a flexible loadout, but the missile HP is in the head and the energy Hardpoints are in the centre torso. You could make a dual gauss/Quad AC/2 with an XL, but for the most part i despise it and want my MCR back :'(.

I'm just grinding it for the Phracts i like, my 1X and 2X.

[Krazy Kat]

The Hunchback 4J is lame now compared to the 4SP. They are almost the same loadout but:

4SP has 2 more lasers in arms.
4SP doesn't have all it's eggs in one basket. The big hunch.

True, 4J has one more energy hardpoint. You can use LRM's for support but the weight almost rules out 5 energy weapons and the new rules make the LRM less effective.