36 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Zeke Steiner, on 14 January 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

For those with motion sickness or cross eyes than sure, elo would help. Best bet would be the combination of the two, but I get the feeling that in mwo, the individual elo skill cap will plateu fairly quickly while those who play in a team that communicates well will actually have a much higher elo.

Good teams prosper in a team orientated game? Single players can only go so far? Surely not

[Zeke Steiner]

DV McKenna, on 14 January 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

Good teams prosper in a team orientated game? Single players can only go so far? Surely not

I'll respectfully disagree and leave it at that.

[Inertiaman]

With what lol?

[Roadbuster]

As long as they take drop weight into account, I'm fine with anything.
BV should be considered too. Especially devices like ECM, engine size and heavy weapons like Gauss, AC20, LRM20,... should have a bit of an influence on matchmaking.

[Kaijin]

Inertiaman, on 14 January 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

you'll be matched up with similarly new players. Most of which by their nature will be in trials.

Why would you be? Thanks to the cadet program, a really bad player could grind enough matches to buy a nice mech and still have an abysmal Elo rating. But just because he's a bad shot, or bad at heat management in a trial mech doesn't mean he'd be incapable of building a much more efficient machine once he's got the c-bill to do so. Then, properly armed with ECM, streaks and/or LRMs, and armor in all the right places, he goes out and kicks some newbie arse.

I'll concede that this newbie newbie-slayer won't be nearly the buzz-kill that the veteran newbie-slayers are. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out though.

Edited by Kaijin, 14 January 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Inertiaman]

And you can't stop someone playing one game then paying for MC. You have to give balancing pilots your best stab and be done with it.

So -if your player in the example If he's winning over half his games whilst grinding that mech, he won't be playing rank newcomers because his PSR will have risen. If he's winning less than half his games, then it won't be a problem for the rank newcomers to compete with him because he is trash.

If there are few people on and he gets unevenly matched against rank newcomers, he will not take much of a PSR increase from a win. If the rank newcomers win, they will see a more significant yield. If implemented correctly, and there are few people on the rank newcomers will be evenly spread amongst the marginally better players and the thing is still balanced. This mechanic also protects 2-3 extremely good players from dropping with a load of new players and boosting them. Their very presence on the team gives the team a high PSR disparity and they'll simply queue longer for a game, or if the mm eventually gives them the best fit - they'll receive nearly no reward for a win.

You cannot completely balance 16 random people meeting on two teams in a game, but as you say the current state of affairs is lousy so I'd take improved but imperfect over the current setup any day.

[MaddMaxx]

The jump from Trial cadet to Custom owned may be quicker, but the ability to actually build a "Custom Mech" is freaking expensive. These new player(s) in their new non-trial rides will not be driving around the day after buying, in an XL powered ride, nor likely have DHS's, Endo or even many Basic, let alone Elite Pilot/Mech tweaks.

By the time that does happen, their ratings will be such that they will likely be a real contributing Team member and quickly advance from then on.

I am quite heartened though by the seeming concern in this thread, by so many, about the fate of those poor Cadets guppies who will have nice new rides, but might end up in the Shark Tank. It is quite refreshing...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 14 January 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Inertiaman]

Yeah mostly it's because I don't want them on my team in public games

[Heffay]

Over a sufficiently large number of games, Elo works great. The existence of a condition that will only apply for a few games isn't a reason to not implement it.

[Kaijin]

Heffay, on 14 January 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Over a sufficiently large number of games, Elo works great. The existence of a condition that will only apply for a few games isn't a reason to not implement it.

I don't see where I advocated not implementing it. Just speculated if it will be the panacea for newbies getting rolled all the time or not.

[Iwaslost]

Maybe wait and see when it's implemented?

[Joseph Mallan]

Zeke Steiner, on 14 January 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

Battle value is a far better way to balance a match than elo

How will BV compensate for the Pilots P/G skills? BV is a easy to exploit system as I have seen done by players in the past. As a former Demo Rep for the TT game I would not trust a BV balanced unit unless I put together both sides, and then watched the game. Just as I did as a Commando.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 January 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[Heffay]

Kaijin, on 14 January 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

I don't see where I advocated not implementing it. Just speculated if it will be the panacea for newbies getting rolled all the time or not.

Yes. Yes it will.

[HC Harlequin]

Thirdstar, on 09 January 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

Wouldn't someone in a trial mech be at the lower end of the ELO scale anyway, and therefore be matched against other newbies?


Genuinely curious, no prior experience with ELO mechanics.

No. ELO is just pilot skill. you are thinking BV/CV matching.

[Hamzey]

Quxudica, on 14 January 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

This is in no way shape or form a MOBA in the slightest degree. No creeps, no turrets, no lanes, no abilities, no in game buying, no in game farming, no in game leveling etc. This genre is First Person Mech Sim, MOBAs are DOTA/DOTA 2/LoL/Awesomenauts/Super Monday Night Combat/Smite etc.

Just because dota style MOBAS are the staple of the genre, they are not by definition the only type classed as a MOBA
it has to be 1 multiplayer 2 online and 3 Battle Arena.

MWO has those 3 things, like WO:WOH has no creeps, no turrets, no in game buying. it has a bunch of players in a small to medium sized map fighting.

[Adrienne Vorton]

since people now get out of the trial mechs within 30 matches i think thats close to a none issue...

[Inertiaman]

Not if their next 60 matches involve a metal **** in their arse.

But also - forgetting about the low end, I'd quite like something to play for at the mid/upper game as well. ELO isn't just noob protection. Done right (and with public stats) it's a great way of adding to the late/progressed game.