183 replies to this topic

[Tolkien]

Pilot formerly known as Kerensky, on 07 February 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Keeping the GECM in the center torso is the best idea. That way you don't risk losing it until you're almost cored anyway.

Counterpoint - if you lose a side torso the XL engine/mech is dead.

Also food for thought, by keeping non-ammo in the side torsos you can in theory keep the engine on-line longer when taking crits (though I am not actually sure if engine crits are happening yet).

[Pilot formerly known as Kerensky]

Tolkien, on 07 February 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Counterpoint - if you lose a side torso the XL engine/mech is dead.

Also food for thought, by keeping non-ammo in the side torsos you can in theory keep the engine on-line longer when taking crits (though I am not actually sure if engine crits are happening yet).

From that logic, you're better served sticking it in the CT anyway, to spread the crits out there since you can't put anything else there without being suicidal.

[Tolkien]

Pilot formerly known as Kerensky, on 07 February 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

From that logic, you're better served sticking it in the CT anyway, to spread the crits out there since you can't put anything else there without being suicidal.

The reason to put it in the side rather than the centre is that the centre already has gyros in there to soak up some crits otherwise headed for the engine. Granted I am not sure if damage to gyros is even enabled yet, as it might be reserved until we can fall down again.

In any event, I have yet to actually lose my ECM to crits even after the latest patch.

Edited by Tolkien, 08 February 2013 - 12:04 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Tolkien, on 08 February 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

The reason to put it in the side rather than the centre is that the centre already has gyros in there to soak up some crits otherwise headed for the engine. Granted I am not sure if damage to gyros is even enabled yet, as it might be reserved until we can fall down again.

In any event, I have yet to actually lose my ECM to crits even after the latest patch.

Gyros cannot be critically hit yet, so your best bet is to put ECM in the center torso.

[Inveramsay]

I'm surprised about how few of these I see on the field nowadays, at least while pugging. I suppose lots of people have concluded that they are pretty op and aren't really that fun to play then. My own 3L is currently mothballed with the engine from it in one of my cats. I also think that lots of wannabe light pilots got scared off now that you can hit lights so much easier.

[Tolkien]

Inveramsay, on 08 February 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

I'm surprised about how few of these I see on the field nowadays, at least while pugging. I suppose lots of people have concluded that they are pretty op and aren't really that fun to play then. My own 3L is currently mothballed with the engine from it in one of my cats. I also think that lots of wannabe light pilots got scared off now that you can hit lights so much easier.

I have seen many Raven 3L's only moving ~90 kph, running in straight lines at assault mechs, and doing other really silly things that quickly get them killed.

I've been running it since the lag shield patch and while it's no longer possible to take fire from the entire enemy team while you circle strafe one of their mechs in plain view and be fine, it's still very survivable *if you keep moving and play smart*.

I still find this build to be one of the best.

[Stringburka]

Tolkien, on 09 February 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

I have seen many Raven 3L's only moving ~90 kph, running in straight lines at assault mechs, and doing other really silly things that quickly get them killed.  

I've been running it since the lag shield patch and while it's no longer possible to take fire from the entire enemy team while you circle strafe one of their mechs in plain view and be fine, it's still very survivable *if you keep moving and play smart*.

I still find this build to be one of the best.

Agreed. Cravens are still excellent, although a bit less so than before.

Personally I must say though that 150 kph is too fast for me to utilize, I'm simply not that good of a pilot. Downgraded my engine a bit, put back the ML that I earlier replaced with a TAG and switched the SSRM-2's for a SRM-6 and an SRM-4.
Result: When I have ECM superiority I'm not nearly as good at hunting lights as before. When I don't have ECM superiority, I'm a little bit better than before.
Against heavier 'mechs, I'm FAR better than before. SRM-8 + 3xML is enough to quickly rip the back armor from heavies. There's a noticeable difference between the 20-25 alpha I had before and the 35 alpha I have now.

For me, who is not an excellent pilot when it comes to moving quickly but is pretty decent at tactics and knowing who I should attack, it works better than your build, Tolkien. For someone's who's better at piloting and utilizing that speed than me, your is probably better than mine.

Edited by Stringburka, 09 February 2013 - 05:01 AM.

[Tolkien]

Stringburka, on 09 February 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

Agreed. Cravens are still excellent, although a bit less so than before.

Personally I must say though that 150 kph is too fast for me to utilize, I'm simply not that good of a pilot. Downgraded my engine a bit, put back the ML that I earlier replaced with a TAG and switched the SSRM-2's for a SRM-6 and an SRM-4.
Result: When I have ECM superiority I'm not nearly as good at hunting lights as before. When I don't have ECM superiority, I'm a little bit better than before.
Against heavier 'mechs, I'm FAR better than before. SRM-8 + 3xML is enough to quickly rip the back armor from heavies. There's a noticeable difference between the 20-25 alpha I had before and the 35 alpha I have now.

For me, who is not an excellent pilot when it comes to moving quickly but is pretty decent at tactics and knowing who I should attack, it works better than your build, Tolkien. For someone's who's better at piloting and utilizing that speed than me, your is probably better than mine.

And for pilots who are demigods SRMs are better than streaks even against lights - being a mere mortal though I very much prefer the streaks when available.

You should know that there is/was a bug effecting rear armor of mechs when struck simultaneously by multiple weapons. This means that the 15 damage 3xML is probably not doing 15 damage to the rear as it should - If I recall the fix is due mid/late February.

Practically what this means is that 3xML might become more respectable for kicking some back next patch.

[liku]

Anybody tried to fit some ppc or er ppc in?
I have to wait for tomorrow to try it

[Stringburka]

liku, on 10 February 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Anybody tried to fit some ppc or er ppc in?
I have to wait for tomorrow to try it

Have tried with regular PPC, didn't work well.

Once the "PPC knocks out ECM" patch comes, I might try to build one with PPC+TAG+LRM10. With the LRM10 in the NARC tube. Just to be annoying and frakk up the aim of people. A true trolling build, only there to make people scream at me. Would be jolly, I think.

Like this:
RVN-3L

Edited by Stringburka, 10 February 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[Tolkien]

Testing update 3 April 2013:

Well it's been a 3 week period or so that we have had matchmaker phase 3 tracking our stats and personally I was expecting that my exploits in the Craven 3L would put me firmly in my place. 200 games later though and my Win/loss has climbed from 62.5% to 64%, and my kill death from 2.62 to 3.00.

In short, even with the PPC tweak to "counter" ECM, and the matchmaker supposedly balancing for skill rather than putting a Craven up against a spider, commando or other delicious bird food mechs it now liberally matches against mediums, heavies and assaults too! Still, this bird is high on the roost and I encourage anyone looking for a blatantly OP ride to build one. (Hopefully they will eventually address ECM if enough people do). Some of this change may be attributed to the giant new alpine peaks map where moving 150 kph is a serious advantage for capping points and or bypassing the enemy to take their base.

Rumor has it that the new Cicada hero mech will have missiles and ECM - perhaps a challenger emerges?

Edited by Tolkien, 04 March 2013 - 01:49 AM.

[Undecided]

While you're here Tolkien, I've been merrily abusing the Craven for over a month now and I have a few thoughts that might be worth adding to your original post.

First the sensor range module. While originally it did not change the detection radius of ECM'd mechs it has been patched so that the range bonus (25% for the advanced module) is now applied to all mechs, pushing the range you can detect aforementioned ECM'd mechs out to 250 meters. In theory this was meant to give other mechs equipped with streaks (particularly light mechs) an increased window in which their weapons would actually function. Of course theories are tricky things, especially when the number one abuser of streaks is the dastardly Craven itself.

In practice this means the Craven now has a 70 meter window against fellow ECM mechs in which they can fire their streaks without first switching to counter mode, allowing them to maintain their own defensive ECM coverage! While flocks of Cravens will benefit little from this as they will already have ECM superiority, a lone Craven can abuse the module in one on one fights with ECM'd Cicadas, and Atlases to not only steal their opponents cake, but eat it to.

As for the second point, if you're a willing to play with two light mechs that take some actual work to be effective and unlock the elite tweaks for your Craven-3L, you can reach the speed cap of 140 KPH using an XL 280 engine. This has the side effect of freeing up one ton that can be used on an extra heat sink, or (with the removal of a little armor) BAP, which brings me to my third point.

While hardly necessary, if running in a flock of Cravens it can be handy to designate one of your number to carry BAP so that you can all continue firing your streaks at shut down 'mechs. Pilots having their still living flesh stripped from their bones by three or four Cravens have a hard time focusing and frequently overheat in their desperate attempts to defend themselves. Yes it's usually overkill, but you're already piloting a Craven, why not kick them while they're (powered) down?

[liku]

Finaly i tried and loved my ERPPC RAVEMP, it is no longer a Craven, but i is a Craven's favorite prey
It eat commando or spider like nothing, and i is the Craven's best friend!
I most use it to annoy heavy or assault ant to chase medium.
My main kill are mostly Phracts and Atlas and treb, it's pretty efficient to HeadShot Them
Cant wait for completing elite... the other variants... are..ahem... how to say it nicely...let's call them "slow"

[Viges]

first Jenners, now Ravens...

Its not MechWarrior its some f*** hawken

if developers like FPS so much then, then, i dont know what then... they just used franchise to **** me off

I was hoping for a Mech simulator

[Tolkien]

Undecided, on 04 March 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

While you're here Tolkien, I've been merrily abusing the Craven for over a month now and I have a few thoughts that might be worth adding to your original post.

First the sensor range module. While originally it did not change the detection radius of ECM'd mechs it has been patched so that the range bonus (25% for the advanced module) is now applied to all mechs, pushing the range you can detect aforementioned ECM'd mechs out to 250 meters. In theory this was meant to give other mechs equipped with streaks (particularly light mechs) an increased window in which their weapons would actually function. Of course theories are tricky things, especially when the number one abuser of streaks is the dastardly Craven itself.

In practice this means the Craven now has a 70 meter window against fellow ECM mechs in which they can fire their streaks without first switching to counter mode, allowing them to maintain their own defensive ECM coverage! While flocks of Cravens will benefit little from this as they will already have ECM superiority, a lone Craven can abuse the module in one on one fights with ECM'd Cicadas, and Atlases to not only steal their opponents cake, but eat it to.

As for the second point, if you're a willing to play with two light mechs that take some actual work to be effective and unlock the elite tweaks for your Craven-3L, you can reach the speed cap of 140 KPH using an XL 280 engine. This has the side effect of freeing up one ton that can be used on an extra heat sink, or (with the removal of a little armor) BAP, which brings me to my third point.

While hardly necessary, if running in a flock of Cravens it can be handy to designate one of your number to carry BAP so that you can all continue firing your streaks at shut down 'mechs. Pilots having their still living flesh stripped from their bones by three or four Cravens have a hard time focusing and frequently overheat in their desperate attempts to defend themselves. Yes it's usually overkill, but you're already piloting a Craven, why not kick them while they're (powered) down?

For the time being the cost benefit on the BAP just doesn't excite me. While you're quite right that it would let me plough the streaks into a shut down mech they're typically in so much trouble if they're shut down anyway that the extra few rockets on target aren't going to change the outcome (much ). For these situations I've been trying to learn the cockpit locations on all mech types so I can put my fire there if they don't have an existing armour breach.

My opinion on the BAP would probably change if ECM equipped/affected mechs weren't 100% invulnerable to it. That combined with the aforementioned sensor range module would increase the gap by another 50m or so to 120m making it big enough that ECM mechs might actually have to be careful again! I really do hope it is modified to do this at some point as right now ECM is just too darn good (in my opinion).

liku, on 04 March 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

Finaly i tried and loved my ERPPC RAVEMP, it is no longer a Craven, but i is a Craven's favorite prey
It eat commando or spider like nothing, and i is the Craven's best friend!
I most use it to annoy heavy or assault ant to chase medium.
My main kill are mostly Phracts and Atlas and treb, it's pretty efficient to HeadShot Them
Cant wait for completing elite... the other variants... are..ahem... how to say it nicely...let's call them "slow"

I haven't had good luck with putting larger callibre weapons on the Craven - the medium lasers occupy one of those sweet spots in the game where the damage:tonnage and damage:space and damage:heat make it look great on paper. The only place I think the PPC has an obvious edge is in the damage:time all happening in a single pulse and on a single spot! I suppose range is another factor but in most cases one can just run over since the bird moves fast

Viges, on 04 March 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

first Jenners, now Ravens...

Its not MechWarrior its some f*** hawken

if developers like FPS so much then, then, i dont know what then... they just used franchise to **** me off

I was hoping for a Mech simulator

Hmm, All I can say to that is> Why you heff to be med?

Edited by Tolkien, 04 March 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[PPO Kuro]

Viges, on 04 March 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

first Jenners, now Ravens...

Its not MechWarrior its some f*** hawken

if developers like FPS so much then, then, i dont know what then... they just used franchise to **** me off

I was hoping for a Mech simulator

Well I think most ppl want MWO-COD online. SO they made it. Actually it's called Craven online now, so all the @sshats can use the Craven. I totally and utterly HATE this mech. Totally and utterly sick of the for me fun spoiling Cravens. I think that I die most thanks to cravens.

Stupid hate love relation with MWO, I want to quite, but can't

Edited by PPO Kuro, 10 March 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[1453 R]

Saving up for my 3L now, actually. Heh...as a longtime (pre-MWO) fan of the Raven chassis and the idea behind it, I've decided that I'm going to pilot the damn thing regardless of opinions about it, now that I've gotten both my Dragons and my Cicadas worked up. It still bothers me that the one variant has more or less ruined the entire 'Mech for a lot of people, but with HSR starting to come online, perhaps the Craven will finally start getting dialed back enough that when people die against them, it'll be because the Raven pilot is killing them, not the 'Mech itself. Not that such will stop the complaints, of course - at this point there's nothing in Creation that'll convince the community at large that the Raven is anything more or less than an imp of the Inferno that needs nerfing less than it needs exorcising.

Sigh.

Heh...anyways. Alternatively, pilots can start using it for its original purpose again, or at least start practicing for it in anticipation of that magical time when Information Warfare comes fully online and the forums explode with terrifying nerdrage when raw, brute force and a team's total AC/20 count stop determining who wins matches. Heh...between my Cicadas, this upcoming Raven, and the (admittedly remote) possibility of an EWAR-equipped Flame clocking 105, I'll be ready for IW.

Will you?

[Sergei Segiovich]

I would be curious as to what % of raven haters also enjoy LRM's. I'd think if all lock on weapons went away, then ecm would not be the problem it is now. for example: I dispise LRM's and enjoy strike mechs; it doesnt matter what it is as long as its fast and can core out missile boats I will enjoy piloting it.

[Zeriniel]

The Craven was my first mech, and it's the only one I've kept concurrently throughout my time playing (Which has only been a month and a half). For a while there, you'd see games full of them, but I think it's lost it's FOTM, as I see it less now than I used to. As far as ECM mechs go, I see just as many COM-2Ds and more ATD-DCs. I think the people who abused it purely for lag shield purposes left it with state rewind get them killed more, and others got bored.
Me, I still jump back to it, while I test out other mechs' play styles.

[DTheSleepless]

Each patch, PGI has quietly nerfed the Raven by fixing the problems around it. Remember that it wasn't good because it was actually a good mech, it was good because it exploited more holes in the game than any other mech. But over the past couple of months:

State-based rewinding has killed the lagshield.
This last patch tweaked the Raven's hitboxes and made it easier to hit.

They've said they're going to nerf ECM soon, and splash damage is being removed on the 2nd (although sometime today we're getting the damage fixed).

I've been happily watching Ravens get splattered, so the actual menace of the 3L is quietly disappearing even though its legacy still looms. What ticked me off the most was always the players that felt like they were such good pilots because they were rolling a mech that was straight up broken. I stopped running my COM-2D anywhere near as frequently for just that reason: I didn't want to conflate having an overpowered build with having skill.