20 replies to this topic

[flaser]

Recently I've finally tried out the zoom module and was frankly dissatisfied. Right now, I'm better off without it, since normal zoom doesn't make my vision so blurry and it's fov is only marginally better than the default max-zoom. Moreover, it also covers up most of the screen, so it doesn't even help maintain situational awareness.

I see two ways to make this a worthwhile investment:

1. Make it less blurry so it's good for its purpose.

OR

2. Make its magnification greater, so while messy, it'd be still a worthwhile trade for those long shots.

OR

3. Make it take up less screen space, operating more like the zoom function in MW3, that way it'd allow the pilot to maintain situational awareness that normal zooming takes away.

[Bhael Fire]

It's worthless currently.

Not sure why they are hellbent on it being a PiP instead of just another zoom level. They could fix it very easily if it just added an additional zoom level instead of an annoying little fuzzy/blurry popup window.

[WardenWolf]

The problem is that the game engine can't render two different views (both the normal and the PIP-zoom) without a big performance hit. Thus, to do a 4x PIP-zoom they simply increase the size of the pixels in that area rather than re-rendering. This looks like cr@p, largely because of the level of magnification. 2x might not be too bad if implemented this way, though.

Thus, there is an easy solution, which I have suggested elsewhere:

PIP-zoom should give a 2x increase in the zoom area, on top of whatever normal view mode (1, 2, or 3x) you are in. Thus at the 'normal' view you'd have a 2x PIP, at 2x you would have the current 4xPIP in effect, but it would be clearer - and you'd also gain a 6x PIP view at the full 3x zoom mode.

[Owlfeathers]

It's useful, but only in some situations. Against smaller mechs however, the picture is too blurry to be certain of hitting the intended target.

[Bhael Fire]

WardenWolf, on 09 January 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

The problem is that the game engine can't render two different views (both the normal and the PIP-zoom) without a big performance hit.

I'd prefer that they just scrap the PiP altogether and add an additional zoom level (1x, 1.5x, 3x, and 6x). Even if the 6x magnification had a grainy video interlaced effect/overlay it would still be better than the current PiP implementation if they maintained the same resolution.



EDIT: To further explain what I mean, take the example above of the macrobinoculars from Star Wars. There's some video interlacing and graininess but you can make out the details a lot easier than how advanced zoom is currently implemented.

They can achieve this by scrapping the PiP zoom window (since cryengine can't handle it) and simply adding a 6x zoom level for those that have advanced zoom. Then they can add an overlay/mask on top of the screen similar to the one depicted above to fake a PiP view. Almost like a special zoom visor on pilot's neurohelmet came down, only allowing them to see the advanced zoomed-in area (instead of having true PiP).

That is, the black outer edges would be opaque and the center image would be alpha'd out with 0% opacity so that the screen beneath it can be seen. They already do something similar to this on the waiting screen — only that the black overlay is set to 50% opacity so that it merely darkens the screen.

That way, they can maintain PiP effect without freaking Cryengine out and also maintain the grainy video effect without losing any pixel resolution.

This is how I would do it (and have done it with other projects).

Edited by Bhael Fire, 09 January 2013 - 05:27 PM.

[RogueGhost]

believe me we do NOT want crystal clear zoom. all that would do is change the game to sniper hell. walking around a corner would get an arm blown off. you hate gausscats now? imagine if they could hit you from 4x the distance of normal. the only reason you ever find gausscats in combat is they need clearer sight picture

[BerryChunks]

Bhael Fire, on 09 January 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

It's worthless currently.

Not sure why they are hellbent on it being a PiP instead of just another zoom level. They could fix it very easily if it just added an additional zoom level instead of an annoying little fuzzy/blurry popup window.

PiP allows you to maneuver terrain better. You never played mechwarrior 3.

[Bhael Fire]

BerryChunks, on 09 January 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

PiP allows you to maneuver terrain better. You never played mechwarrior 3.

Uh...Yeah. I've been playing the MW series since it was first released. Every single release.

Yes, PiP does allow for better situational awareness, but all that is moot if the PiP is borked beyond repair and you can't see **** — Which is the case now and for the foreseeable future as long as they are using Cryengine.

Currently PiP is useless in the game. I'd rather have a classic "sniper scope" cam with 6x magnification but with no peripheral vision than PiP zoom that shows you a bunch of fuzzy, pixelated crap that's useless for targeting. Also, it's assumed that advanced zoom will only be used when sniping...so, I don't know about you, but I rarely try to "maneuver the terrain" while taking a carefully aimed shot at a target 1500+ meters away.

[Bhael Fire]

RogueGhost, on 09 January 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

believe me we do NOT want crystal clear zoom. all that would do is change the game to sniper hell. walking around a corner would get an arm blown off. you hate gausscats now? imagine if they could hit you from 4x the distance of normal. the only reason you ever find gausscats in combat is they need clearer sight picture

I AGREE! That's why I suggested that advanced zoom be grainy and video interlaced like the image I posted while also blocking peripheral vision (making it harder for the sniper to be aware of his/her immediate surroundings). That is, I like the idea of it not being completely crystal clear, but also, I don't want it to look like I took a magnifying glass up to a computer/tv screen and can't even tell what the **** I'm looking at. Somewhere in between would be nice.

[General Taskeen]

I'll be satisfied with the zoom when its like Mech Warrior 3

http://www.youtube.c..._fDH_zO4#t=262s

[Alistair Winter]

General Taskeen, on 09 January 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I'll be satisfied with the zoom when its like Mech Warrior 3

http://www.youtube.c..._fDH_zO4#t=262s

This.

The zoom module was the first one I got, but I rarely bother using it. It's not worthless, but it's the least useful of all the modules, except maybe the 15% cap bonus.

It's a delicate thing though, It shouldn't be so good that it becomes a mandatory choice. Right now, some people like it and some don't. That's how it should be. They just need to improve it slightly, so that a few more people will find it worthwhile.

[Bhael Fire]

General Taskeen, on 09 January 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I'll be satisfied with the zoom when its like Mech Warrior 3

http://www.youtube.c..._fDH_zO4#t=262s

Ain't gonna happen. Not in this game, anyway. Why? Read the entire thread.

[WardenWolf]

Alistair Winter, on 09 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

It's a delicate thing though, It shouldn't be so good that it becomes a mandatory choice. Right now, some people like it and some don't. That's how it should be. They just need to improve it slightly, so that a few more people will find it worthwhile.

Quite true, and I think that the suggestion I posted earlier (and in some other threads) would accomplish that perfectly. It would at least be something worth the Devs implementing on their end and testing internally.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

I don't use it because everyone I know that has it stopped using it cause it sucks.

[General Taskeen]

Bhael Fire, on 09 January 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Ain't gonna happen. Not in this game, anyway. Why? Read the entire thread.

Sorry to disappoint, I read the thread. It is gonna happen. In this game. Why? Because Mech Warrior 3 had the best PiP of all time, of all time!

[Bhael Fire]

General Taskeen, on 10 January 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

It is gonna happen. In this game.

Don't hold your breath.

[General Taskeen]

Bhael Fire, on 10 January 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

Don't hold your breath.

Everyone is entitled Bhael, I thought you would pick up on that point. It doesn't make either of us right.

Edited by General Taskeen, 10 January 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[BerryChunks]

For some reason they think someone with PiP that has clear vision in the zoom sight will be insta-killing people with weapons that take TIME to reach their target, without knowing the target is there beforehand (are you behind building A, or C?). Basically, their arguments are just so many fallacies.

For instance, mechwarrior 3 had PiP zoom that was perfectly clear. It also had Gauss Rifles who's range was 1200, but the game DEvolved into mass medium laser or mass streak wars. So they're already wrong by the fact that we have proof from previous games that such a system does not lead to sniper wars.

Edited by BerryChunks, 10 January 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

General Taskeen, on 10 January 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Everyone is entitled Bhael, I thought you would pick up on that point. It doesn't make either of us right.

I think you are misunderstanding my position on the matter. I have nothing against PiP advanced zoom. My point was that there's no point in having PiP if the engine can't handle it — which is clearly the case with Cryengine and the current game.


So when I say it's not going to happen I'm basing that assumption on the fact that it's beyond the physical limitations of the engine. So rather than them just leaving it asstastically borked like it is now, I offered a feasible workaround.

[General Taskeen]

Which is why I wish the CryEngine could handle it.

Its sad that the MW3-Engine could handle PiP (that even moves with the aim cursor) so well, and a new engine can't.

Edited by General Taskeen, 10 January 2013 - 07:04 PM.