3 replies to this topic

[Sandslice]

Apologies in advance for this: for organisation purposes, this will involve multiple posts.

CYAN ELK VERSION:
The engine cap system, and the marriage of torso/arm sweeping to speed, should be tweaked or changed. This will help to mitigate or remove the need (if not the tendency) to up-engine, and preserve distinctions among 'Mechs.

And now it begins.

Much is made 'round here of ECM and whatnot, and I do have thoughts about EW and the double-blind game; but for now, I'd like to focus on engines, and some of the effects that engine caps and other speed-based mechanics have on the game.

1. Engine caps and light 'Mechs!

More than most classes, light 'Mechs have a wide variance in stock engine ratios, ranging from the 2 of the UrbanMech and 4 of the Panther to the Jenner's 7 and Spider's 8, and even higher (Fire Moth anyone?)
This variety, paired creates a host of usage doctrines, ranging from barely weaponed but ridiculously mobile recons, to fast but heat inefficient strikers that need to hit and fade to avoid overheating, to slightly slower but versatile sorts, to "baby mediums" that trade the light's mobility for the medium's better firepower.

The engine cap completely destroys this relationship by pulling all light 'Mechs within 3.05kph (speed tweaked) of each other.

-Stock engine rating to weight ratios (or "walk MP" in TT terms):
8: Spider, Cicada
7: Jenner
6: RVN-3L, Flea, Commando
5: Other Ravens

-Capped ratios:
8.6: Commando, by 25*8.5 rounded up to 215.
8.57: Jenner, by 35*8.5 rounded up to 300.
8.5: Spider, Cicada, Flea, all by straight *8.5 (and the Flea also by 120*1.4 rounded up!)
8.43: RVN-3L, by 210*1.4 rounded up to 295.
7: Other Ravens, by 175*1.4=245.

3kph, for reference, means this: if a Commando and an ECM Raven start within kissing range, and run straight in the same direction, it will take about three and a half minutes for the Commando to run out of the Raven's ECM bubble - the amount of time it would take any 3kph (1m in 1.2s) object to move 180m. At the COM's actual top speed of 153.252 kph, this would involve a travel distance of about 9 kilometers.

This reduces the comparison among the lights to a simple matter of loadout options - and further highlights the dominance of ECM/SSRM, since the COM-2D cannot be outrun by anything, and the RVN-3L cannot be outrun in a reasonable time or space frame --- nor fought without a higher skill cap (between the speed armour and the lag shield.) Which leads to the second problem... in the next post.

Edited by Sandslice, 09 January 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[Sandslice]

2. The need for speed!

Even considering that the speed caps are more or less equal, not capping out is guaranteed to make your light 'Mech "free" against Trollmandos and Streakravens. Yes, freer than otherwise. This, essentially, makes up-engining (burning tonnage, going to suicidal XL engines, etc) mandatory for even basic viability.

This is also true of heavier 'Mechs, though for a different reason: because torso and arm traverses are keyed to max speed, being slow renders you largely unable to track enemies at ranges shorter than long, meaning that even an up-engined assault has a rather good shot at permanently getting on your six, and then making you deep-sixed in short order.

Neither of these is good for the game, I think.

3. Fire and ice, ice and fire, and Clanspeed.

There are two operational caps currently: the 8.5, and the 1.4/1.3/1.2/1.2, which limit potential engine size, and are mainly there to prevent things like "130kph" Hunchbacks running engine ratios of 7+. However, two of the 3050 Omnis, the Fire Moth and Ice Ferret, both exceed 8.5 naturally. The Fire Moth has an engine ratio of 10 (and also MASC, allowing it to hit 216kph for bursts,) and the Ice Ferret has a ratio of 9 (scary on a medium.) The current system doesn't even allow them to exist - and not just them, but TRO 3055 units such as the Fireball (11!!) and the Jenner IIc (9) and later.

Saying that the Clans get a pass here doesn't work: the ALM-7D Fireball is Inner Sphere. What becomes of them?

4. The proposal:

-Allow 'Mechs to up-engine by a fixed amount of engine ratio. A simple 1.25, rounded down, will work well for all weight classes.
A Jenner, for example, can boost from a ratio of 7, to up to 8.25: a 285 engine rating is less than 288.75.
A Spider's natural 8 can boost to up to 9.25: a 275 engine.
The Awesome can get into a 340, while the Stalker uses a 360 to get a little less than 4.25 speed.

This serves to allow a custom 'Mech to be a little faster than a stock of one "walk MP" higher, but appropriately slower once the normally faster 'Mech customises. It's also scalable with 'Mechs that are faster than 8.5 naturally.

-Uncouple torso and arm traverses from engine speed.

The idea I have for this involves a number of "fine tuning" sliders for the following:
-Torso traverse
-Arm traverse
-Acceleration
-Deceleration
-Rate of convergence
-Paperdoll acquisition rate?

Maybe a couple others, and a point system so that you take some at a trade-off, and fine-tune your 'Mech's performance that way.

[Zyllos]

I think this a very good observation and suggestion, having engine only determine the maximum speed and leaving various chassis/variants having unique features.

Of course, this makes sense in the TT because turn/arm speeds and traversal arcs are a non-issue. But in an FPS Battletech game, this have major implacations.

But, your ideas on allowing higher ratios of 8.5 is only there because of the netcode. Once netcode is much more stable, that 8.5 * Tonnage limit will be removed, with only the 1.4/1.3/1.2/1.1 * Base Engine Rating as the limit for maximum engine rating size. This will allow mechs with much higher ratios of engine rating to mech chassis tonnage, thus mechs that sacrifice a lot of weight for the speed.

[Sandslice]

Actually, with the engine thing, my main thrust is about *lowering* speed, particuarly on the Streak heroes, so that faster non-Streak 'Mechs aren't shoehorned into even larger XLEs to have any hope of engaging or disengaging. Yes, the Cicada (370 XLE saves three tons over 320 SFE) and Spider get to break 9, which gives them an edge over Jenners that can only break 8, which gives them an edge over Streak heroes that can only choose to marginally break 7.

At the same time, it gives customs a bit of an edge over stocks of their own kind, as well as one engine bigger - but the Streak heroes would still only be 0.25 (4.05kph) over stock Jenners, not the full-blown 1.5 (24.3kph) they currently get.