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You Know How Pgi Removed Knockdown Because It Was Broken And Looked Unprofessional?


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#41 Shumabot

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostArmandTulsen, on 11 January 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:


Really, dude? You're going to throw that at me? You said it yourself, the game is 30 years old. Most of the player base that was in their 20s at the time are now probably grandparents. It's certainly dead or stagnant, because, you know, IT'S A THIRTY YEAR OLD GAME. But imbalanced, it isn't.

Instead of just going ahead and assuming that the theory can't be put into practice, if I can use that close analogy, why not be open to the idea of a direct digital, real-time port of the game? I mean, we can even take MWO as it is, and simply change the values to reflect the original game. Then we can see how that will play out.

Without even attempting it everybody, including game developers, just seem to assume that it won't work. Why is this? Are people afraid of a ten second recycle on the AC/20? What's that you say? It'll make the game SLOW? Well, tough, that's the damn game.



I suspect the game designers don't do so because many of those systems don't pass initial scrutiny in a live environment. A big part of game design is thought experiments and physical prototyping. Battletech was as much an RPG as it was a battle game, and without scenario driven circumstances and planned scenarios with built teams that had intended functions (all things a skirmish based live environment game don't have) the game fell apart. Grab eight random mechs from a box and eight from another, and one team would steamroll another. The moment you roll up against five xl engine assaults with your team of centurions you're going to get trashed. That was an unreasonable expectation in battletech, it's commonplace here because of how persistent arena games work. Battletech is a board game, this isn't, changes have to be made for function and decorum. Mechwarrior had objectively bad mechs and weapon systems (The spider, machine guns, urbanmechs, etc). What made them work was the fact that it wasn't a competitive battle game, it was a tactical RPG. Cost factored, scenarios were important, and due to it's existence as an RPG it had a breathing world surrounding the players actions. These are things that aren't really possible in this genre of game without a multi million dollar investment and hundreds of staff.

If you want to play the board game MW:T just announced it's founders package. I want to play mechwarrior, not battletech. That means making this game the best game it can be for the type of game it is, and that isn't done by doggedly pursuing a model that is doomed to failure because it was never designed for this format.

There is a tendency on these forums to assume that any changes from the board game are a sign that the developers are abandoning battletech, but I used to play and enjoy BT and MW both. I think they're both great, but MW games were never perfect replicants of the board game. If they were we'd be seeing dozens of mechs with AC20s in their legs and everyone would put all of their ammo into their cockpit. The games developers have adhered very strongly to the board game, sometimes to MWOs detriment (repair and rearm costs being an example of something truly damaging that they had to remove). You should laud them for making the closest MW game to the board game yet rather than be mad and shout at them all the time.

Edited by Shumabot, 11 January 2013 - 01:03 PM.


#42 Vicks

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

Removing knockdown was Keeping knockdowns out of the game would be a mistake. Removing the feature until it's fixed is responsible.

That is all.

Edited by Vicks, 11 January 2013 - 01:05 PM.


#43 PropagandaWar

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:04 PM

View Postkilgor, on 10 January 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

I don't think they should reintroduce knockdowns, but there should be more collision damage.

Sorry have to dissagree with you there. Even in my meds when I was knocked down it brought something to the table. Knockdowns are a great part of the game. Dont remove lights they will be fixed soon enough.

#44 Shumabot

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

View PostPropagandaWar, on 11 January 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Sorry have to dissagree with you there. Even in my meds when I was knocked down it brought something to the table. Knockdowns are a great part of the game. Dont remove lights they will be fixed soon enough.


Knockdowns can be a fun part of the game, but as they were implemented the system was abusive and very silly. I don't know how collision works in the back end of MWO, but if they have the capacity to only force knockdowns in situations where collisions are extremely hard I think that would be a good middle ground. Lights tripped way to much before and dragon bowling was... Dumb. They've indicated that weapon systems will cause knockdowns (AC20 specifically), which would also be a fun way to add it back in.

#45 Athena Pryde

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:12 PM

I can understand not having knock downs but no collision damage and no collisions with other mechs just sounds bad.

As a Stalker 3F lights don't even don't even need to circle pinwheel me they can run through me taking no damage and stop on a dime and shoot me in the back point blank while I try and turn around its pretty stupid. If the light mech runs into my Stalker 3F the light should take a decent amount of damage and my mech takes a little bit. World of Tanks had ramming and collision damage. It was quite annoying when your team mate cliped you and damaged you but it was realistic and fair.

Edited by Athena Pryde, 11 January 2013 - 01:13 PM.


#46 PANZERBUNNY

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:14 PM

You need to bait lights behind you by going one direction and then doing a hard turn the other direction so they are already committed to the direction you wanted them to go, to get your shots on them.

#47 Name140704

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:14 PM

I think they should take out all the weapons except for machine guns, for one day. Just one ;)

#48 CrashieJ

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

View PostIwaslost, on 10 January 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:


Because that's totally not utter ********. If you even partially believe this you're an *****. Collisions were terrible. That being said it's sad that it has taken this long to get them back into the game.


also ran into this (pun not intended) while surfing on youtube



I wonder if this had an effect on PGI's decision

Edited by gavilatius, 12 January 2013 - 03:08 PM.






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