69 replies to this topic

[Ian]

Quote

Because in World of Tanks, you have to grind using weaker tanks to make money to use the top tier tanks. That isn't fun for me.

Or you need premium, or be a really good player. Thats part of the point. You don't HAVE to buy premium, but it sure cuts down on the pain.

IIRC Devs said your Mech would have bare minimum repairs to make it combat ready even if you have zero c-bills. That to me would mean some armor and structure everywhere, but probably not more than 50percent. Also probably 50 percent of your weapons/modules operational.

Could that mean you get stuck in a rut running every game in a barely held together mech? I sure hope so. That sounds just like the IS pre clan invasion. Especially for newer/less able merc units.

My suggestion... Keep a cheap to repair mech around untill you have a great big bankroll.

[ManDaisy]

I don't see much tier - based repair, however everything in mechlab will have a cost so the more expensive the mech was to build the most its gonna cost to repair. You want a low maintenance mechs, skip XL engines and stick with the less exotic weapons. More heavy mechs have more armor to lose, so you'll be paying more to repair strictly based on quantity. Ammo cost will also add up so if you want a cheap mech go for something with not too many weapons, and no ammo requirements.

Edited by ManDaisy, 24 May 2012 - 08:00 PM.

[Slyck]

I think a 10m c-bill mech should be the breaking point between being able to regularly make a profit and taking a loss. This would mean that even with the most expensive tech 1 mech your pretty much safe. But as soon as you start including tech 2 gear you start running a real risk of losing currency.

I can understand people being worried about having to grind in a cheaper mech, but the difference between this game and WoT is that you can still be a factor in the game no mater what mech your in.

As an adendum, I'd like to see discounts for repairs in faction specific mechs as part of the rewards from Influence with your faction. This will make faction specific mechs more profitable for you and progressing in your faction will allow you to push the tech envelope.

Edited by Slyck, 24 May 2012 - 08:01 PM.

[Aedensin]

That's something I really hate about WoT. Get in my T6 VK and get a couple kills before getting sniped by an IS3 or an arty then get negative rewards.

If that happens here, it could have a pretty negative impact on players that aren't used to it. I've had to re-roll characters in several games because maintenance fees took all of my earnings and then some, regardless of how well I played.

[ManDaisy]

Part of the fun for us builders is making the most powerful mech for the cheapest cost possible. They also tend to be ZOMBIES!

[Felicitatem Parco]

ManDaisy, on 24 May 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

I don't see much tier - based repair, however everything in mechlab will have a cost so the more expensive the mech was to build the most its gonna cost to repair. You want a low maintenance mechs, skip XL engines and stick with the less exotic weapons. More heavy mechs have more armor to lose, so you'll be paying more to repair strictly based on quantity.

Example:

Cicada 3C - Standard 280 engine, 118kph, a PPC, twin machineguns, 4 tons of standard armor.
3,306,334 C-Bills

Cicada 3M - XL320 engine, 129kph, 2 Med Lasers, 1 sm pulse laser, 1 Ultra AC/5, 4 tons of standard armor
7,738,867 C-Bills

Edited by Prosperity Park, 24 May 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[Ian]

Quote

That's something I really hate about WoT. Get in my T6 VK and get a couple kills before getting sniped by an IS3 or an arty then get negative rewards.

If that happens here, it could have a pretty negative impact on players that aren't used to it. I've had to re-roll characters in several games because maintenance fees took all of my earnings and then some, regardless of how well I played.

So there is one huge difference between this and WoT.

Assault mechs may have more armor than Lights, however a Medium Laser still does 5 damage every hit all the time.
No bounce,bounce, bounce, bounce, dead.
A Jenner with 4 mediums lasers can put some hurt on even an Atlas.

[pursang]

I am wholly against any system that punishes new players and bad (performing) players.

Edited by pursang, 24 May 2012 - 08:15 PM.

[LordDeathStrike]

well, i still think its a proper penalty if you go over say, 25k cbills in dmg on friendlies with ff, that you pick up their repair tab automatically from your cbill account. this in theory could put you well into the negative if you team shoot on purpose. otherwise ya, if you are in a game, get mauled and lose, but at least tried, you should break even after repairs. and if some **** team kills you on purpose, they pay your repairs anyway and you break even even though you didnt get to do any match point things or shoot people.

[IceTitan]

Devs said a while back that if your mech gets total your technicians will repair it freely to a functional level, but not at 100%. You'll have to pay to get the mech to 100%

Basic mechs/equipment will be easy to field and trash since the parts are easy to come by, but yeah more advanced your mech is the more it will be a pain in the *** to fix. But sounds more like they made it so you can still fight, just your mech won't have full armor and so on.... so if your broke you'll have to hope your teamates can pick up the slack and give you a chance to gain money... But I got a feeling you'll gain c-bills based on damage you did and mechs killed as bonus.

Just your mech will always be functional, at no cost, but you'll be easier to kill until you fix it fully. At least that's my understanding, so I figure only time you'll lose c-bill is going to be on repair bills and if they feel like it, transportation and your personnal maintenance crew. But we'll find out for certain in July.

[GaussDragon]

WalkingDeathBot, on 24 May 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

I believe tiers were mentioned in the dev blogs, but refer more I think to the modules, or skills one can unlock for a mech/pilot. I agree with other posters that running an assault mech kitted out entirely with clan tech should cost more. Better players should be the ones who can afford to run the big boys IMO.

Just to build on train of logic here, I'm guessing one of the key ways the devs are going to balance Clan tech vs IS tech is that the repair bills on Clan mechs are going to be significantly higher. That means you can drop into a match with an IS mech, get stomped and still walk out with more C-bills than you came in with. You drop into a match with Clan mech, lose slightly, and come out with a noticeable C-bill deficit. If that's the case; well done PGI, that is clever.

EDIT: Just to add, I think that's a very clever mechanic. It's a trade-off between risk and reward. It maintains the prestige of certain items and prevents the allure from dulling. This is a big part of what makes EVE popular. Titans wouldn't have nearly the same ooooh/ahhhh factor if they were less expensive and/or could be easily replaced.

Edited by GaussDragon, 24 May 2012 - 08:32 PM.

[LordDeathStrike]

ManDaisy, on 24 May 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Part of the fun for us builders is making the most powerful mech for the cheapest cost possible. They also tend to be ZOMBIES!

like an awesome with a ton of med lasers! think about it, we know itll fit no less then 9 med lasers, possibly even more (say the arm can handle 4 meds, and each torso 5, or maybe that stump left arm has a couple mounts open that the stock 3 ppc awesome doesnt use). with standard engine, max armor and 12+ med lasers + all the heat sinks you can fit in the legs, spare torso spaces and arms, you have a zombie that can melt a jenner in 1 salvo.

[Tincan Nightmare]

GaussDragon, on 24 May 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Just to build on train of logic here, I'm guessing one of the key ways the devs are going to balance Clan tech vs IS tech is that the repair bills on clan mechs are going to be significantly higher. That means you can drop into a match with an IS mech, get stomped and still walk out with more C-bills than you came in with. You drop into a match with Clan mech, lose slightly, and come out with a noticeable C-bill deficit. If that's the case; well done PGI, that is clever.

EDIT: Just to add, I think that's a very clever mechanic. It's a trade-off between risk and reward. It maintains the prestige of certain items and prevents the allure from dulling. This is a big part of what makes EVE popular. Titans wouldn't have nearly the same ooooh/ahhhh factor if they were less expensive and/or could be easily replaced.

Makes you wonder how they will implement playable Clan characters, since Mechs in the Clans are owned and assigned by the Clans, and I can't even remember if Clan warriors use currency with that whole caste system. Maybe if you want a new chassis you'll have to fight a trial or something . And unless the devs are as penny pinching as a Lyran, a decent performance even if you lose will probably give you enough to repair and rearm, at least I hope so. (They aren't Lyran merchants right?)

[Ian]

Quote

I am wholly against any system that punishes new players and bad (performing) players.

This shouldnt hurt new players as their mechs should be relatively cheap. Bad players it will only hurt if they insist on playing expensive mechs. If they are bad AND insist on playing very expensive mechs they could be in trouble.

[LordDeathStrike]

Tincan Nightmare, on 24 May 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Makes you wonder how they will implement playable Clan characters, since Mechs in the Clans are owned and assigned by the Clans, and I can't even remember if Clan warriors use currency with that whole caste system. Maybe if you want a new chassis you'll have to fight a trial or something . And unless the devs are as penny pinching as a Lyran, a decent performance even if you lose will probably give you enough to repair and rearm, at least I hope so. (They aren't Lyran merchants right?)

BT lore clearly states the zell....whatever demands that clan warriors die with their mechs, they dont eject, they dont get taken alive, they die with honor. so when you lose in a clan mech think of it like playing hardcore on diablo, you are done, you start a new character and career to keep playing, but that old one and all his stuff = gone!

[Rot Wulf]

LordDeathStrike, on 24 May 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

BT lore clearly states the zell....whatever demands that clan warriors die with their mechs, they dont eject, they dont get taken alive, they die with honor. so when you lose in a clan mech think of it like playing hardcore on diablo, you are done, you start a new character and career to keep playing, but that old one and all his stuff = gone!

^^^^^
This will keep there from being an overwhelming number of clanners.

Let them be hard core get good gear, and go out like a stick of dynamite.

[Felicitatem Parco]

LordDeathStrike, on 24 May 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

BT lore clearly states the zell....whatever demands that clan warriors die with their mechs, they dont eject, they dont get taken alive, they die with honor. so when you lose in a clan mech think of it like playing hardcore on diablo, you are done, you start a new character and career to keep playing, but that old one and all his stuff = gone!

Nice caveat...

[Ian]

Lol, I HIGHLY doubt you will see that. And not every clan was that strict.

[pursang]

Ian, on 24 May 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

This shouldnt hurt new players as their mechs should be relatively cheap. Bad players it will only hurt if they insist on playing expensive mechs. If they are bad AND insist on playing very expensive mechs they could be in trouble.

Yes, well I'll be the judge of what is "relatively cheap" and what will hurt new players.

[UncleKulikov]

WalkingDeathBot, on 24 May 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

I feel your pain with that, however there should be some sort of risk reward system

That risk-reward system could be mech repair time. The more damaged, the longer it takes to return to active duty. And you could pay more to speed it up, creating an incentive to buy currency if you play rarely and need to get your matches in, or to buy more mechs and more slots.

You shouldn't have to grind for currency to repair expensive mechs with less expensive mechs.

Ian, on 24 May 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Or you need premium, or be a really good player. Thats part of the point. You don't HAVE to buy premium, but it sure cuts down on the pain.

IIRC Devs said your Mech would have bare minimum repairs to make it combat ready even if you have zero c-bills. That to me would mean some armor and structure everywhere, but probably not more than 50percent. Also probably 50 percent of your weapons/modules operational.

Could that mean you get stuck in a rut running every game in a barely held together mech? I sure hope so. That sounds just like the IS pre clan invasion. Especially for newer/less able merc units.

My suggestion... Keep a cheap to repair mech around untill you have a great big bankroll.

I don't want to HAVE to buy premium to be able to consistently use mechs that I've earned, or paid money for. Imagine, having to pay money to use the mech you paid money to use? It's ridiculous. It saps the fun out of the game by requiring you to maintain an additional mech just to harvest currency, it's a mechanic that JUST adds grinding to the game.

And it isn't the players who do the best who get rewarded; sometimes you can get lucky, but then it saps points from other players on your team making it a zero sum game. I'm not interested in that nearly as much as a progression system, where your stuff is repaired and rearmed just for staying in the match til the end and not attacking team mates.

Edited by UncleKulikov, 24 May 2012 - 09:54 PM.