34 replies to this topic

[Goose Igaly]

I have read many threads complaining about teamwork in PUG drops. So many elude to players who refuse to listen to plans, run solo, and overall "ruin the whole game."

I'm afraid I must politely disagree with these claims. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but only a small percentage of the matches I'm in have had these problems. I tend to drop in a 3-man or 4-man. We do our thing together, whether it be moving to flank the enemy or going for a base cap. I will often state in team chat "[TC] going/doin {x}." The other players usually stay together in another group or simply follow us around.

In the past I took command of the battlefield very regularly and utilized the battlemap and team chat to communicate plans. 95% of players follow my/my group's lead and do as we ask. We don't win every time, but we've had decent success. I have seen a light or two running off on their own, but most times they communicate back that they are going to scout ahead for us.

Take for instance Caustic Valley. When we drop on the non-city side, I like to group my team up in the g4 h4 area. I instruct them to find cover and wait for them to come in to us. A few players will get ancy and want to step out, but the LRM fire will keep them behind the cover. Usually the enemy team will come at us staggered, allowing us to focus them down as a team. When we do get rushed by 3 or more, players start stepping into the open and LRM/Guass mechs will start eating them. In this case I designate a target in team chat to focus down.

These are topics I have discussed in a previous posting. Don't be afraid to take battlefield control. If your plan fails, no big deal, learn what went wrong and plan for the next one. The vast majority of players will follow the commander's instructions; that's why the commander position is available. Yes, it takes more work and coordination on your part to fight, update battlemap objectives, and communicate in team chat, but if your teams are so terrible, they need all the help you can give them.

If someone else takes battlefield command, follow their instructions. Even if you think they'll fail, follow them. You wouldn't like it much if they didn't follow yours. Repair costs are gone, every game is a profit. Everyone claims that the K/D doesn't matter. So what does it matter if the plan fails and you die? Lead or be lead.

[Irvine]

And if all else fails just follow the friggin atlai.

[Team Leader]

That part where you said you usually drop in a 3 or 4 man...

[Fat Samurai]

Nicely put, Goose

Team Leader, on 11 January 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

That part where you said you usually drop in a 3 or 4 man...

Invalidates his entire argument? With a handle like "Team Leader" one must assume that you have a team, right? As in, people who regularly drop with you?

[Team Leader]

Fat Samurai, on 11 January 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Nicely put, Goose


Invalidates his entire argument? With a handle like "Team Leader" one must assume that you have a team, right? As in, people who regularly drop with you?

Not the whole thing. Parts of it. That group means in game there will always be 3 or 4 guys going the same direction. Since a large amount of Pugs sit still for a bit, they're naturally inclined to follow "the group" in a herd. In a pure pug game, most people wander off in random directions, leaving no one to follow, so they all split up and dint take directions. Mostly the herd mentality thing. Safety in numbers.

[Fat Samurai]

Team Leader, on 11 January 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

Not the whole thing. Parts of it. That group means in game there will always be 3 or 4 guys going the same direction. Since a large amount of Pugs sit still for a bit, they're naturally inclined to follow "the group" in a herd. In a pure pug game, most people wander off in random directions, leaving no one to follow, so they all split up and dint take directions. Mostly the herd mentality thing. Safety in numbers.

See? That was much more helpful and polite and the Internet thanks a lot you for it.

Now imagine that you jump in the Command chair at the beginning of the match and put a Big Arrow somewhere on the map. Or go to teamchat and say where to go. 3 PUGs actually see it and decide to follow it. Incredible, I know, but the "herd mentality" you speak about means that people actually follow orders by someone with <Commander> before his name.

You have the situation you have previously described with a 4-man drop. A little less efficient, but still working better than nothing. Definitely much better results than screaming at your screen while watching little arrows wander aimlessly.

[ElmoWithAGun]

Teamwork is OP. Let's nerf it gais

[xRaeder]

To the OP. Sorry... no... you are wrong. You invalidated your entire post in the first paragraph by saying you drop in 4 man premades.

This game doesn't readily support tactics because it is 8v8 and a brawlfest at short range most of the time.

[Goose Igaly]

xRaeder, on 11 January 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

To the OP. Sorry... no... you are wrong. You invalidated your entire post in the first paragraph by saying you drop in 4 man premades.

This game doesn't readily support tactics because it is 8v8 and a brawlfest at short range most of the time.

I'm not wrong so much as have an opinion differing of your own. Yes, a 4-man group on the enemy team can mess up your day, but they are far from unbeatable.

I fail to see how this game is any different from any other multiplayer game out there. Take for instance MAG (Massive Action Game) for the PS3. I haven't played it in quite some time, but when I did it was huge teams vs. huge teams. Most people dropped in by themselves, were assigned to a squad, and the squad had a leader. You were expected to follow the squad leader's directions. Sure, someone occassionally ran off and did their own thing, but the command structure encouraged that they stick with the pack. That "herd mentality" mentioned above.

"But this is 8 vs. 8, it doesn't apply!" Doesn't it? You are dropped into a group of others wanting to play and someone needs to take the lead. Take charge and give direction. The concept is the same.

"But you're talking console!" Irrelevant (sp). I'm far from a console gamer, but the concepts still apply. I even recently started playing Tribes Ascend again. Go into a TDM (Team Death Match). Same mechanics.

Yes, I drop with a group. That's the way I choose to play. I have dropped many, many times by myself and have only ever seen what "everyone" complains about in 3 or 4 matches. Yes, we get bulldozed, but that's because no one takes charge. On matches when I took charge and began communicating with my team, our chances of victory increased dramatically.

The points remain valid.

[Lupin]

There will not be any real team work until there is a reason to have team work.

All we have at the moment is shoot-em-up.

[Goose Igaly]

Lupin, on 11 January 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

There will not be any real team work until there is a reason to have team work.

All we have at the moment is shoot-em-up.

I would be curious to know if you have ever taken battlefield command and, if you have, what the results were.

[Fat Samurai]

Lupin, on 11 January 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

There will not be any real team work until there is a reason to have team work.

People tend to whine argue a lot that 4-men that use teamwork trounce random PUG drops. It seems a good reason to me.

xRaeder, on 11 January 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

To the OP. Sorry... no... you are wrong. You invalidated your entire post in the first paragraph by saying you drop in 4 man premades.

I love when people write exactly the same that the poster above them, without adding anything to the discussion OR reading previous posts that may be answering those same complains.

[Octavia Incendio]

Team Leader, on 11 January 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

Not the whole thing. Parts of it. That group means in game there will always be 3 or 4 guys going the same direction. Since a large amount of Pugs sit still for a bit, they're naturally inclined to follow "the group" in a herd. In a pure pug game, most people wander off in random directions, leaving no one to follow, so they all split up and dint take directions. Mostly the herd mentality thing. Safety in numbers.

I've dropped in a two man, and have dropped alone into a PUG. In most pure PUG games I've played people still follow other mechs. Most people can easily understand that it's not safe to go solo into a mass of enemy mechs, or to risk running into other mechs.

My reason for teamwork on a group is simple: I want to live long enough to have a chance at victory/a kill.

[Falchion Sensei]

I agree with TC for the most part. With only a few RL friends playing this game currently, the rest of my friend list has been bulked up by simply asking/suggesting what to do and where to rally at match start. When people start communicating, and depending on how well we perform I ask if they want to send out some FRs out & group up. Plenty of nice, reasonable, talented people to meet in this game. Not everyone is a durdling buffoon. Some nights it can seem that way though, and after a handful of disastrous solo drops I call it a night. : P

There is however a big difference between dropping in a 4-man and just lone wolfing it. The merits of voice communication need no mention. In my experience it becomes very difficult to lose when you have a full group who can talk. We honestly steamroll all night, not bragging. We do lose some games, but a portion of those aren't even attributed to gameplay, it's often a framerate bug, orange screen, or disconnect that fractures the team.

Even without voice capability having a group of people who you repeatedly play with and know what they're running is a big advantage as well. I've been in plenty of solo drops where people are texting, but nobody is running ECM. Or we all coordinate where to go, but some people end up isolated or engage an enemy who snuck forward under ECM cover. They start fighting but it goes unnoticed by a portion of the team. Slow assault mechs move past the point of no return, etc. It's tough to continue the flow of information as the battle begins, and you are forced to anticipate your teammate's actions for the most part. Once a brawl breaks out typing to your teammates becomes a huge liability. Texting while driving is a proven killer, be it cars or mechs. : )

It really all hinges on the lack of built-in voice communication. Many people, Founders or not, are just not inclined for whatever possible reason to install a chat program themselves and reach out to other people. It is without a doubt one of this game's largest barriers to entry at the moment.

[Rustybuckets]

I agree and disagree.

You have Lone Wolves (I'm one) and I agree with the OP for the most part. Follow the team leader but NOT BLINDLY.

For instance, had the TC hat, gave a plan, I did not follow part of my suggested plan exactly (that being stay together), but my "teammates" "did" and we lost. Why?

Rule number 0: NO PLAN survives contact with the enemy.

My teammates were so focused on CAPping (before latest patch and CAP was the way to go), they did not stop when I alerted them to movement and a rush from another direction. Other team capped first despite my poor efforts to slow some of them down (Can you say FODDER TIME, Sure you can.)
I got Team Chat "You didn't follow your plan, sorry." "You didnt stay with the group, that's what your get!"
I assume they got the minimum for the match as they fired no shots, did zero damage and I'm not sure they made CAP (or if they did it was 1 or 2 ticks down) before DEFEAT popped up on screen.

I despise the Rage-in-Chat TC's who because their glorious battleplan failed (EPIC failed and they were doing their best to channel Victor S-Davion, or Kai Allard-Liao or whomever ), they vehemently cuss at and berate other players as noobs.

I try to be respectful of you other folks as players. Not all are new players and not all are going to be experts or masters either. The bottom line is to have fun and enjoy the GAME.

Another thing I'd rant on is the single-mindedness of some of you TC's. "We are going here and doing this, and turning here..." and you do the same thing on the same map every time (HINT: See rule zero above). It's good to know your maps and terrain but for Pete's sake, mix it up.

Do not despise the Lone Wolf. I can say for 1 match my not "following the herd" got me to spot enemy movement that would have flanked us and we would have gotten hosed.

Do not stand in front of me, I may not follow. Do not stand behind me, for I may not lead. But dagnabbit, focus your fire, back me up if you can and use the "R" key. The tricky thing right now, typing orders, moving and firing at the same time as Falchion Sensei alludes to his post above. If you can voice chat, you have a good advantage. But the main thing is to have fun. If you aren't then....

[Stonefalcon]

Teamwork is overpowered. Nerf Teamwork......

[herosson]

Goose Igaly, on 11 January 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I have read many threads complaining about teamwork in PUG drops. So many elude to players who refuse to listen to plans, run solo, and overall "ruin the whole game."

I'm afraid I must politely disagree with these claims. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but only a small percentage of the matches I'm in have had these problems. I tend to drop in a 3-man or 4-man. We do our thing together, whether it be moving to flank the enemy or going for a base cap. I will often state in team chat "[TC] going/doin {x}." The other players usually stay together in another group or simply follow us around.

In the past I took command of the battlefield very regularly and utilized the battlemap and team chat to communicate plans. 95% of players follow my/my group's lead and do as we ask. We don't win every time, but we've had decent success. I have seen a light or two running off on their own, but most times they communicate back that they are going to scout ahead for us.

Take for instance Caustic Valley. When we drop on the non-city side, I like to group my team up in the g4 h4 area. I instruct them to find cover and wait for them to come in to us. A few players will get ancy and want to step out, but the LRM fire will keep them behind the cover. Usually the enemy team will come at us staggered, allowing us to focus them down as a team. When we do get rushed by 3 or more, players start stepping into the open and LRM/Guass mechs will start eating them. In this case I designate a target in team chat to focus down.

These are topics I have discussed in a previous posting. Don't be afraid to take battlefield control. If your plan fails, no big deal, learn what went wrong and plan for the next one. The vast majority of players will follow the commander's instructions; that's why the commander position is available. Yes, it takes more work and coordination on your part to fight, update battlemap objectives, and communicate in team chat, but if your teams are so terrible, they need all the help you can give them.

If someone else takes battlefield command, follow their instructions. Even if you think they'll fail, follow them. You wouldn't like it much if they didn't follow yours. Repair costs are gone, every game is a profit. Everyone claims that the K/D doesn't matter. So what does it matter if the plan fails and you die? Lead or be lead.

I'm sick to death of people like you...........sick. Your killing this game. Play a real multiplayer game and see what works this is not it.

[BerryChunks]

you can force people to play with "teamwork" by using their behavior to get what you want:

They're going suicide rambo mode? Cool. A good distraction so you can get into a flanking position to pound them from behind.

They're going slow and taking corners? You can guard them and focus fire enemies with them when they run into enemies.

people who complain about teamwork are the same unimaginative losers who don't teamwork in the first place

herosson, on 11 January 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

I'm sick to death of people like you...........sick. Your killing this game. Play a real multiplayer game and see what works this is not it.

"you're"*

[QuantumButler]

when the brilliant plan is "walk into the water on frozen colony and die one by one without ecm cover" I think I'll not follow it, thanks.

[Super Mono]

Fat Samurai, on 11 January 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Nicely put, Goose


Invalidates his entire argument? With a handle like "Team Leader" one must assume that you have a team, right? As in, people who regularly drop with you?

It does actually. He's framing the entire argument as about beig about teamwork when the actual issue is a broken mathcmaking syustem that isn't properly balancing groups against eachother, and is instead matching groups against pubs playing solo.