116 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

ConnorSinclair, on 11 January 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

I'm about to go '98 eminem on these forums.

I'd laugh, bring it!

[TurinAlexander]

I'll just leave this here:

[Armorpiercer M82]

im playing balistic most... and cant wait for RAC...

[Roadbuster]

TurinAlexander, on 11 January 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I **** mechs with my dual AC/20s, but hey, if they devs want to make my build even more effective, I wouldn't argue against it.

That's a problem of the mech, not the AC20.
Catapult K2 has a big advantage of almost impossible to hit side torsos as long as they have arms. This makes it hard to disable the ACs.

I agree that some of the ballistics are too heavy. AC2, AC5, AC10 for example. LB10X, UAC5, AC20 and Gauss are fine as they are.
Also the projectile trajectory is still crappy. Combined with the crappy netcode, we have ballistic weapons that have a delay before firing (god knows why), don't shoot where you aim at and sometimes even shoot out of the side of the barrel of the gun.

What you will see most of the time are either snipers using Gauss and standing still somewhere and AC, UAC, LB10X users who move up to 5m range and then just keep firing.
You don't see many mechs using ballistics while moving and shooting at a also moving target at ranges of 300-600m.

[GalaxyBluestar]

MustrumRidcully, on 12 January 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

I think the real felt imbalance is due to the Medium Laser. It's also the likely reason why we didn'T get DHS 2.0 - the Devs feared what lights and mediums could do with Medium Lasers then. But they completely missed that this significant benefit would only apply tot he Medium Laser, and other weapons (not even its closest neighbors, the medium or large pulse laser) would benefit like that.

med lasers get this op perception simply because of hardpoints and the fighting enviroment. first off long range fighting happens about 30% of the match the first throws of lrm's the pot shot of a sniper, then everyone closes in so only med-close range combat takes place. so small and med lasers have more oppotunity for max performance over lrg er lrg lasers and ppc/erppc. all of which suffer heat and don't max dmg against gauss ac20/s etc. now many mechs have energy hardpoints and you'll find boating meds compensates for the srm spammers and other brawler builds dominating the playing field, any other energy based weapon means you'll overheat or won't be beating the minmaxers. adittional problems occour to avoid overheat you chain fire so you're spreadding damage over time instead of one shot is 20 or more points on one spot which leads to very quick killing to someone who can half aim. also ac2's and 5's suffer because of this lack of range oppotunity which is why they're too percieved as underpowered.

now we have the op saying i want more ammo cause clearly the ammo explosion and conservitive fire of these powerfull one hit wonders is too much of a disvantage. so if you do take out the conservative ammo management along with no heat bonus, all damage to one spot bonus ammo explosion offset by simple c.a.s.e installment. energy mechs will die, cataphracts and catapults are already in vast numbers over swaybacks and awesomes but apparently it's not enough, we need to make these mechs extinct cause i see them all the time being the last mech standing stealling all the kills and bassically ruling over any other mech. yep this is another mad bad turning point for mwo.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 12 January 2013 - 05:09 PM.

[Valkaryie]

Wrong lbx 10 is an awesome weapon i run a catpraph 2x10lbx and 3 medium lazers usually get 2 kills a match usually a medium and a heavy so u run your lazers and I'll get u when u shut down from overheating

[Norris J Packard]

Valkaryie, on 12 January 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Wrong lbx 10 is an awesome weapon i run a catpraph 2x10lbx and 3 medium lazers usually get 2 kills a match usually a medium and a heavy so u run your lazers and I'll get u when u shut down from overheating

Quoted for posterity.

[Mahws]

It's a testament to just how fun an LBX is to use that so many people are able to delude themselves into thinking that the current LBX10 does anything other than tickle your enemy rigorously. People avoid flamers, machine guns, narc and small pulse, but they're happy to slap down 11 tonnes + ammo on a weapon with an effective range of 50 meters that spreads out ten damage over the entire enemy.

[Five oh Five Squat]

Mahws, on 12 January 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

It's a testament to just how fun an LBX is to use that so many people are able to delude themselves into thinking that the current LBX10 does anything other than tickle your enemy rigorously. People avoid flamers, machine guns, narc and small pulse, but they're happy to slap down 11 tonnes + ammo on a weapon with an effective range of 50 meters that spreads out ten damage over the entire enemy.

But it costs 1 less ton and critical slot but does the same!! *end sarcasm*

It works with a lot of noobs since they can fit that machine gun or flamer in with the saved slots/weight.

[Corvus Antaka]

I disagree. with the exception of arm convergence problems ballistic weapons are just fine.

The only weapons & items that need addressing right now are the LRMs and the ridiculous damage they do, the ssrms (looking to a future of ssrm6) and the ECM.

balance and fix these 3 items and the game will be in a solid place. then move on from there.

[Symbiodinium]

I agree that a set of small buffs to most ballistics would be beneficial (I say this as someone who primarily laserboats).

[Khobai]

1) AC/2 needs less heat. In TT, the AC/2 is one of the coldest weapons, but in MWO its one of the hottest weapons! That makes no sense...

2) AC/5 and AC/10 need to fire faster. The AC/2 should not do more dps than the AC/5 and equal dps to the AC/10.

3) AC/20 needs less heat and more ammo per ton. AC/20 should also be able to split its crit slots between torso and arm locations like in TT. Although for firing purposes the AC/20 would be located in the more restrictive of the two locations (i.e. side torso). Basically this would just allow for a side torso AC20 and XL to be used at the same time.

4) UAC/5 needs a lower jam chance and a slower rate of fire to compensate. This would make it a more consistent weapon without increasing its overall dps. UAC/5 should also get the same ammo per ton as the AC/5.

5) LB10X cluster rounds need a damage increase. The LB10X cluster rounds should also do bonus crit damage. The LB10X should also be able to switch between cluster and slug rounds (although it should fire slug rounds slower than the AC/10 so there's still a reason to use the AC/10)

6) Machine Gun needs a damage increase. Machine Gun should also do bonus crit damage.

7) Gauss needs to fire slower. Gauss' hitpoints should also be increased back to normal. The problem with the Gauss was always that it fired too fast. Making it "fragile" was the wrong way to balance it.

Edited by Khobai, 12 January 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[Lonestar1771]

hashinshin, on 11 January 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

I think I might've been a little more conservative in my suggestions than needed, but it'd be nice to get ballistics even a little better.

Dude, I wouldn't take Garth serious in any way. He has said this many times before and nothing ever changes.

[Dendrobium]

I like ballistics personally. I do agree that they are inferior though. I run them for a few reasons though. Don't have to worry about heat management. No big fat "here I am" tracer.

I run a 4X with 4 AC5's and 8t of ammo. The left side and right side are isolated so I can have virtually non stop fire going. I also run a 3D with 2 AC5s with 5t ammo, as well as 2 or 3 MLs. It took me a bit to learn the lead on here. I got good with it in BF3, doing sniping with a MBT. Here, there are some quarks though that I haven't figure out if it is bugs in the game or supposed to work that way.

[Khobai]

Oh yeah and we also need a new ballistic weapon that's in between a machine gun and AC/2. Part of the problem with mechs with ballistic slots is that there's no ballistic weapon in the 3-5 ton range.

[Asmudius Heng]

Just get rid of the fire delay.

Thats it - i do not care about anything else just get rid of the fire delay and I will be able to use ballistics.

I have avoided them but now i am working on my atlas and have taken to using the AC10. When i am facing bigger slower mechs or people who sit still so that i can hit them reasonabley well they are fantastic. As soon as i face someone with a just a little bit of speed and lateral movement its guesswork to lead the target to compensate for lag, then lead again to compensate for fire delay. Then fire - then wait a moment - then see the shell fire off in a random direction ...

I usually ignore my AC10 and pack little ammo on it and only use when i find someone moving slowly.

The advantage of putting all your damage in one place is good. The crux of the OPs argument is about the miss rate and that is about netcode and wonky firing mechanics.

Fix the mechanics first and then we can talk about numbers with a more informed opinion on miss rates.

[Volume]

With proper play, ballistics are actually the strongest weapons in the game (AC/20 and Gauss specifically)...

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

I cant say that I agree that ACs are 'worst weapon' at least not for me in practice. I've recently switched to an AC2/SRM build and have been doing much better than ever before. That being said, i like your ideas.

[King Arthur IV]

i didnt read it all but i agree that ballistics suck. weight plus ammo = more weight. i feel like if im going to snipe i rather use a ppc, then when im up close i rather have srm. i understand it is a weapon that can basically fill most ranges but because of the total weight, if you snipe you run out of ammo for when your close up.

i have one mech that uses ballistics and iv only kept it because of the sound effect. (btw ac20 needs more boom to it)

[elbloom]

I wouldn´t really fiddle too much with weapon balancing until the damn netcode is acceptable.
You see, everything will have to be rebalanced when this is achieved... for obvious reasons...