12 replies to this topic

[HighGround]

Light Mechs are fast and agile, hard to hit due to their speed and small profile. Before ECM was ever introduced, we saw a lot of Jenners, they were very formidable foes due to their speeds and agility. Now with ECM, I rarely ever see Jenners anymore because they don't have an ECM option, everyone is piloting Ravens, Commandos, Cicadas, Spiders, and the occassional Atlas D-DC ALL with ECMs because ECM is now necessary to win in MWO.

It has become common in matches to see ECM-light premades dominating the battlefield with their speed and targeting protection. Big mechs can't move fast enough to hit them, and streaks (most big mechs only defense to lights) are disabled by ECMs. Even LRMs are very rare on the battlefield anymore due to all the ECM protection.

I don't want to see this game turn into a "Must have more ECMs than enemy to win a match" but that is what it is becoming. The fact that only certain mechs can use ECM has not prevented people from switching to those mechs. I RARELY ever see a light mech variant without ECM, it is just that overpowered.

My suggestion to fix ECM is:

• Reduce ECM's disruption shield radius to 90m, this will make it so you have to get close to protect allies from LRMs
  
• Enable targeting of ECM mechs with BAP equipped within 120m of ECM mech so that we can hit those pesky lights with Streaks when they get too close to us
  
• Make it so NARCs and TAG allows for targeting an ECM mech with LRMs and/or Streaks

With these changes, ECM will still be effective, lights will be able to scout without being detected, they will also be able to move in and use their streaks, but they'll have to keep their distance and watch out for enemy lights who may NARC or TAG them for LRMs.

Edited by HighGround, 17 January 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Biglead]

"Light Mechs are fast and agile, hard to hit due to their LAGSHIELD and HORRIBLE HITBOXES".

Sorry, your first statement was a tad misleading.

[Greyfyl]

But according to pgi ecm use is dropping.

And I hate to say this because I personally hate ecm as it's currently implemented, but I have noticed less ecm in pugs lately. You still get the games with 4 lights per side or 3 ddc's - but I've had many more games lately where there are 0 or only 1 or 2 ecm mechs on both teams combined.

Lights and fast mediums I just don't know what to say about anymore. The first game I played after the spider was out I killed 3 of them in one match with my Stalker. Next game I had a fast dragon on me that just would not take damage at all. So I don't know anymore.

[Insidious Johnson]

Motion for deletion of post for whining. Seconded?

[Green Mamba]

Lights+ECM+STREAKS you mean...without streaks they are fine...I just run lasers on my Raven 3L myself

I tried the 3Med laser 2 Streak build for one game,with no experience with streaks I scored 3 kills(forgot the damage but it was pretty good) off the bat .I was like WTF.

Although they work great and are effective, I did not not have fun using them...

I felt like taking a BATH afterwards having used them

[Zphyr]

Just to clarify:
- There are still plenty of LRM flying around... and they still rock.
- ECM use (in pugs at least) have dropped significantly.
- We fortunately restarted to see more jenners, although it's true that ravens took their place as the most wanted lights.
- Small profile is indeed a plus for lights (of course)... but it's the net code that make them a pain to hit.
- DDCs aren't occasional, often there are more DDC than 3L in a match.
- Spiders are common nowadays because they are new in town. We may see them less often in the incoming weeks.
- Lights without ECM are very common. People have to at least get two no-ECM whatever mech to upgrade the ECM one.
- ECM is not needed to win a match! It may make it easier, depending on the opponent, but it's far from being a must.

Now to the suggestions themselves:
- Am fine with a smaller disruption area, but 90m is too small. Mechs don't usually stay glued to each other. Unless there are at least a couple ECM mechs, it will be very very hard to cover allies, even if none are wandering around.
- So... BAP should be able to cancel out (aka counter) ECM? Then what does the counter in ECM itself do? Play as a mini-BAP? I do agree to giving more reasons to use BAP (they need some more love) but... don't know.
- You can already shoot with LRM against ECM protected mechs... with a TAG!


PS: I have 9 mechs, and only 1 have ECM. Have you tried using a light...?

Edited by Zphyr, 17 January 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[Joe Luck]

Greyfyl, on 17 January 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

But according to pgi ecm use is dropping.

And I hate to say this because I personally hate ecm as it's currently implemented, but I have noticed less ecm in pugs lately. You still get the games with 4 lights per side or 3 ddc's - but I've had many more games lately where there are 0 or only 1 or 2 ecm mechs on both teams combined.

Lights and fast mediums I just don't know what to say about anymore. The first game I played after the spider was out I killed 3 of them in one match with my Stalker. Next game I had a fast dragon on me that just would not take damage at all. So I don't know anymore.

The use might be less due to people leaving the game or not playing until fixes.
Which means there are mostly new people playing or people really bored with the current setup.

[AlexWildeagle]

clueless is as clueless does

bad netcode + high speed = lagshield. If an atlas could move at 130 you'd be whining about it as well.

ECM was a bad bandaid for the missile problem. They need to solve the missile problem first

[One Medic Army]

Green Mamba, on 17 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Lights+ECM+STREAKS you mean...without streaks they are fine...I just run lasers on my Raven 3L myself

I tried the 3Med laser 2 Streak build for one game,with no experience with streaks I scored 3 kills(forgot the damage but it was pretty good) off the bat .I was like WTF.

Although they work great and are effective, I did not not have fun using them...

I felt like taking a BATH afterwards having used them

This, people, is the real reason why ECM use is dropping, it's actually so easy to do well with a SSRM+ECM light mech that it's just not fun to play.
Plus the other team heckles you for doing it.

[Greyfyl]

Zphyr, on 17 January 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

- There are still plenty of LRM flying around... and they still rock.

Not sure where you are playing, but I've played more this week that I have in a while and most games (at least 75%) have no lrm's at all. Zero. Then you have the matches where one guy is still trying to make an lrm boat work or maybe is just sitting in the back with his one lrm launcher trying to get some damage in before the brawl starts.

But then once every blue moon, you get a premade that is obviously LRM centered. They are running LRM with a spotter and are usually very effective because many new players don't have a clue what to do when lrms start coming at them.

Edited by Greyfyl, 17 January 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[Zphyr]

Greyfyl, on 17 January 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Not sure where you are playing, but I've played more this week that I have in a while and most games (at least 75%) have no lrm's at all. Zero. Then you have the matches where one guy is still trying to make an lrm boat work or maybe is just sitting in the back with his one lrm launcher trying to get some damage in before the brawl starts.

But then once every blue moon, you get a premade that is obviously LRM centered. They are running LRM with a spotter and are usually very effective because many new players don't have a clue what to do when lrms start coming at them.

Where? In front of a laggy laptop. =)
Ok, seriously... am not exaggerating. While I haven't played as much due to real life, I still do play several hours every other day. And in most matches, there will be least one missile boat. Not dedicated LRM boats, of course. Finally people realized how dangerous it is when pugging, but they are still there. They certainly are not as prevalent as when they were crazy popular due to increased damage + nonsensical turns (quickly fixed, thank goodness), but I at least do see them becoming more used (same with an increase in AMS). Am not talking about LRM groups. Those can be devastating when done well. Just that hopeful pug waiting to wreak havoc.

[Savroix]

Insidious Johnson, on 17 January 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Motion for deletion of post for whining. Seconded?

Guess you didn't get a "seconded", huh?

[REDACTED]

Edited by Dakkath, 18 January 2013 - 09:14 AM.
Language

[Wales Grey]

Insidious Johnson, on 17 January 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Motion for deletion of post for whining. Seconded?

I second the deletion of this thread, which I dub ' "ECM IS OP WAAAAH I CANNOT ADAPT TO NEW THINGS" thread #9001'.

Please mark this thread for exterminatus.

Edited by Wales Grey, 17 January 2013 - 06:07 PM.