25 replies to this topic

[80Bit]

Old topic but now that we have had time with ECM and TAG range extension, I would like to know the feeling about LRM Ballance.


Please answer this question about LRMs in general.

Don't answer it based on that time the entire enemy team was under an ECM blanket the whole match.

Don't answer it based on that time a Stalker LRM boat caught you in the middle of the lake and turned you to slag in 6 seconds.

Just answer about your feel of LRMS, in general, across all your matches now.

[TheMadPoet]

I think they are balanced overall. They can tear you apart if you are out in the open, but can be countered by cover and/or ecm. I've seen whole teams get ripped apart by them, and I've seen them be next to useless. Just depends on the situation, as it should.

[hashinshin]

ECMs are pretty good where they're at.

[Braggart]

80Bit, on 12 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Old topic but now that we have had time with ECM and TAG range extension, I would like to know the feeling about LRM Ballance.


Please answer this question about LRMs in general.

Don't answer it based on that time the entire enemy team was under an ECM blanket the whole match.

Don't answer it based on that time a Stalker LRM boat caught you in the middle of the lake and turned you to slag in 6 seconds.

Just answer about your feel of LRMS, in general, across all your matches now.

why cant we vote based on that. Those are critical areas that should be considered.

[Firestorm43]

LRMs seem pretty good to me right now, though I should note this is the point of view of someone who has hardly touched them since Closed Beta, and I only base this off of how much attention I need to give to people throwing LRMs in the direction of me and/or teammates. After all the various changes they've gone through, good and bad, their current spot seems about right to me. The only reason anyone might think they're underpowered right now is 'cause of the still-abundant ECM out there limiting their usefulness. Once ECM usage drops off a bit more (either through an unlikely nerf or people just moving on to other 'Mechs), I think this won't even need to be in question.

Edited by Firestorm43, 12 January 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

I chose "slightly OP" but "balanced" would've been a valid option, too.

I can see though were all the gripe is coming from: LRMs feel underpowered when I fire the LRM10 in my Centurion. But they feel wastly overpowered when a Stalker fires it's quad LRM20.

The solution to the problem is smart playing. Yes a Stalker with so many LRMs can kill a medium in a few seconds. On the other hand a medium would be fast enough to get into cover quickly so that the Stalkers wastes all those 80 missiles. And when the medium gets close to the Stalker there is a good chance the assault mech has not enough support weapons to effectively fight the medium in close combat.

So...balanced. And I say that while having 6 mechs...three Hunchbacks and three Centurions.


PS: Another form of balance is when both teams have a more or less equal amount of LRMs, or one team has less but good spotters / more lights to disturb the LRM boats in the enemy team. Again, yes it is frustrating to die by missile avalanche, but if you nerf them more, than mechs who use LRMs as support weapons (and not as main weapons) would become less and less viable.

It's the same thing than calling the medium laser OP. Because normally it is not. But put 9 of them in a Hunchback 4P...

Edited by GODzillaGSPB, 12 January 2013 - 10:43 AM.

[80Bit]

Braggart, on 12 January 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

why cant we vote based on that. Those are critical areas that should be considered.

You can if either of those is at all typical for you. I just wanted to remind people not to make a broad judgement from a small sample size.

It's human nature to remember only the most unique of events and forget the rest. if you made a LRM boat, tried 3 matches and did not get a kill, then stopped using LRMS, does that mean LRMS are necessarily under-powered?

If you got demolished by LRMS in the last match you played before reading this poll, does that mean LRMS are overpowered?

In my last several hundred matches I have only dominated with, or been dominated by, LRMS a handful of times. Perhaps that means I suck at using them, or I am good at avoiding them. I am at least trying to make my observation based on a large range of situations, and how often those situations happen.

[Errant Variable]

I don't like how they're implemented, or how ECM is implemented... but I have to admit that it kinda works out somehow.

[Butane9000]

They're technically unbalanced into the underpowered bracket when you factor in ECM but with just TAG, NARC and Artemis they are balanced with their damage output.

[SpiralRazor]

TheMadPoet, on 12 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

I think they are balanced overall. They can tear you apart if you are out in the open, but can be countered by cover and/or ecm. I've seen whole teams get ripped apart by them, and I've seen them be next to useless. Just depends on the situation, as it should.

TheMadPoet, on 12 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

I think they are balanced overall. They can tear you apart if you are out in the open, but can be countered by cover and/or ecm. I've seen whole teams get ripped apart by them, and I've seen them be next to useless. Just depends on the situation, as it should.

LOL...dude, you obviously know NOTHING about game design...Its practically the Hallmark of something thats terribly, terribly implemented if its Incredibly OP!!! one game, and useless the next... Wow, really kinda freaky that you think they are "balanced" like that.

[TheMadPoet]

SpiralRazor, on 12 January 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

LOL...dude, you obviously know NOTHING about game design...Its practically the Hallmark of something thats terribly, terribly implemented if its Incredibly OP!!! one game, and useless the next... Wow, really kinda freaky that you think they are "balanced" like that.

I didn't say anything about it being incrtedibly overpowered in one game. I said it could tear you apart if you are out in the open. As with ANY weapon or piece of equipment, it's effectiveness is situational. If I am shooting a small laser at someone clear across the map, that's not too effective eh? If I move up behind another mech and blast him in the back with a SRM6, that IS effective eh?

If the whole team stays behind cover, ecm or no, LRMs aren't effective right? If they are out in the open brawling in the water or something, they ARE effective eh?

So, Mr Game Designer, you obviously know NOTHING about reading comprehension. In every MMO or stand alone game I've played, some things work better in a particular situation, while others are less effective in that same situation.

[80Bit]

MadPoet's point is pretty spot on.

Even if a weapon is very powerful, if there are effective ways to counter it in any give game, it has to be considered when talking about that weapon's balance.

LRMs can be counterd by avoiding lock on (ECM and positioning), grouping with lots of AMS, or simply using cover.

[Omni Tek]

LRMs as is? fine, as long as the other team doesn't have 2+ ECMs you'll do great.

[a rabid chihuahua]

I agree there pretty balanced. If you use TAG effectivley you get a good saturation ,if you use random lock and they use cover it' minor armor damage but supporting like intended.It all comes down to the targetting of you and friendlies and if the enemy is using ECM and or AMS for the most part.I have games where I barely do any damage to where I take out a 2-3 mechs in a game with asssists from just a couple LRM 15's w/ artemis.

[MadPanda]

I think they are pretty balanced.

[80Bit]

That was an amusing video MadPanda. Of course it only shows the upsides of LRM boating. The downsides can be...significant.

[CrashieJ]

I feel like compared to ECM, LRMs are balanced. scale back ECM, and we'll have to scale down LRMs to compensate.

I like LRMs, I also like ECM (not in it's current state). but the fact that ECM is a Superhard counter makes LRMs "ens eclipsatur" balanced.

Edited by gavilatius, 13 January 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[Vechs]

I want to say they're slightly underpowered.

You have to dedicate a lot of tonnage to use them effectively, and they can be soft-countered already by terrain (and as people have said, not standing out in the open like a moron, which not only leaves you vulnerable to LRMs, but also to the large number of direct-fire boats I've seen)

But they can also be totally negated by a 1.5 ton piece of equipment, that also negates in a wide area of effect, both directed against you, or done for the enemy team.

It's this total hard-counter that makes me think they're not all that great. At least streaks are light weight, and with the exception of the Streak Cat, are more like "back up" weapons.

LRMs are heavy, their ammo is heavy, you have to build a mech around them, and they can be countered really, really easily.

So... meh... they can be amazing in some situations, but taking them in the current game build is very risky.

Edited by Vechs, 13 January 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[Sable Dove]

Here's the question that should be asked first:
Does the target's team have ECM?
No: LRMs are slightly overpowered.
Yes: LRMs are nearly useless.

ECM needs a nerf, and LRMs need a slight nerf so that they don't bocome overpowered.

[Felix]

LRMs were fine and balanced just before the ECM patch.

ECM makes them massively underpowered

ECM+Tag(With range boost) makes them slightly underpowered.

If ECM gets a nerf to say, double lock on time and negate artemis systems instead of the whole "lol you cant target" ******** then they will be nicely balanced again