32 replies to this topic

[JohnnyC]

Of course ECM is limiting variety. I have run my Jenners here and there, but if I come up against a 3L Raven, I'm hosed. Commando's seem to have slightly better hit boxes than the Ravens so they can be overcome, but they're still tough to kill. Essentially, until there is some kind of hard counter to ECM that isn't ECM (sorry... tag only works outside of the 180m bubble of protection) there isn't going to be as much variety on the field.

Maybe ECM is as intended? Maybe it's not? I don't know... I still run the mechs I want, but unless I get very very lucky, I'm not winning a 1 on 1 fight against an ECM Raven no matter how much I lead my shot with lasers (which is pants on head stupid).

It's possible that once netcode is updated and improved, we'll see some balance against ECM, but in the meanwhile... just expect to see people playing 'easy-mode Ravens'...

[Voidsinger]

I'd say it may be time for a break from ECM complaints until after the new patch, which will be the first "real" patch since ECM was introduced.

After that, and after we see what they do, then we start to complain again ;-)

[JediPanther]

I've tried the laser boat jenner and founder jenner with std 260 to get my speed up with nothing but small lasers. I can normally turn a raven to orange but never completly kill it. The jenner just can't compete weapon or speed wise with any raven. Maybe I can get 30 total damage if you mount med lasers and sacrifice armor. The best weapon against a raven beside another raven is your entire team ganging up into one huge circle of death on it. I've had some success using the k2 with two lbx-10s aka boomstick with one vs one.

[TB Freelancer]

If you look back, every cheese build or lance configuration you can imagine only shows in obscene amounts up when there's one or two groups in a match.

Voidsinger, on 13 January 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

I'd say it may be time for a break from ECM complaints until after the new patch, which will be the first "real" patch since ECM was introduced.

After that, and after we see what they do, then we start to complain again ;-)

Yeah pretty much. Which is why I don't really think there's much point to whining about it too much. Next month will have its new set of broken flavors of the day.

[Roadbuster]

Voidsinger, on 13 January 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

I'd say it may be time for a break from ECM complaints until after the new patch, which will be the first "real" patch since ECM was introduced.

After that, and after we see what they do, then we start to complain again ;-)

Of course you are right. But we didn't hear anything from PGI regarding ECM and possible adjustments yet (please correct me if i missed something) or if they even are aware of the problem.
I'm just tired of having to use some specific mechs with specific loadouts if I want to win a game.

Some things I'd like to see to improve the situation would be:
- implementation of a minimum range of 100m for SSRMs
- TAG should work inside ECM buble for the mech firing it
- ECM shouldn't prevent lock-on if the other mech is in your field of view and in a 180m range, just increase lock-on time 2-3 times if no TAG is used

[Windsaw]

If you have your own ECM Commandos and Ravens, team them up and make them hunt the enemy ECMs. One disrupts, the other counters. Take them out one by one.

If your ECMs are outnumbered, ignore the enemy ECM Commandos and Ravens. Or at least don't do more than chase them off. Concentrate on their heavies. Once they are gone, you can take out their lights. On their own, they can be defeated.
If you try to fight them early on, their heavies will destroy you and it doesn't matter if you succeed to kill one or two of their lights.
Of course you are still at a severe disadvantage, but at least you can score an occasional win this way.

[Quxudica]

Roadbuster, on 13 January 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

CN9-A: UAC5, 2x MPL and 3x SSRM2 with a 260XL
CN9-D: 2x MG, 2x MPL 1x SRM4+Artemis 1x SRM6+Artemis with a 300XL

I usually prefer the CN9-D because of the higher speed (~106kph if I remember right).


SSRMs are not as OP as they were and are a viable weapon for hunting lights. In fact, they are the most effective weapons vs light mechs as long as they don't have ECM.
If SSRMs were so OP why do you rarely see a StreakCat lately?
They are good weapons for and vs light mechs. Want to nerf them a bit? No problem.

A working netcode and collision-system will make light mechs more vulnerable, but ECM still has too many benefits for one device and no real counter besides another ECM.
Jenners don't have better firepower than Ravens btw. It's just a matter of how you equip them.

Btw. just played a few matches. 4 matches with ECM Raven, 4 wins, 11 kills total. If I compare that to the games I played with the Dragon...lol. Talk about OP.

The only reason the Streakcat is rare is because it cannot carry its own ECM. SSRMs are still too strong, ecms introduction just mandates you have your own if you rely on them. Any weapon aimed by AI to the extent of having 100% accuracy should hit like a pillow or have major heat/weight/ammo issues imo.

[M4rtyr]

Any FotM always has an impact on variety in MMOs.

Don't want to hurt variety? Don't be a FotM following loser. (directed at noone, just saying)

[Dusty Sandals]

Just limit engine size in the raven-3L. Having them travel at ~150KPH is ridiculous. You can't outrun or out turn it with any mech with the way the speed cap is set. Which if your going to have the most unbalanced weapon in the game (still streaks) and ECM on the same bird is ludicrous.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Roadbuster, on 14 January 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

Of course you are right. But we didn't hear anything from PGI regarding ECM and possible adjustments yet (please correct me if i missed something) or if they even are aware of the problem.
I'm just tired of having to use some specific mechs with specific loadouts if I want to win a game.

Some things I'd like to see to improve the situation would be:
- implementation of a minimum range of 100m for SSRMs
- TAG should work inside ECM buble for the mech firing it
- ECM shouldn't prevent lock-on if the other mech is in your field of view and in a 180m range, just increase lock-on time 2-3 times if no TAG is used

Garth said in one of the ECM forums that they are "aware of the ECM/SSRM problem and are looking into it".
So something should get worked out, but it is not going to be an instant thing by any means I believe.

[Waylander40K]

I agree that ECM and SSRM is overpowered, esp on lights.

Would like to see some simple fixes implemented, lore or not.


1. Beagle active probe, allow SSRM's to work regardless of ECM (perhaps at a reduced lock on range). Therefore other capable meches can then use them more effectively.

2. SSRM ammo to weigh more (or less ammo per ton) and do less damage (i.e. they have guidanace and directional thrust to home in with so this should take up weight/or reduce damage due to less explosive being in them).

[Roadbuster]

Well, it's been a few weeks since I started this thread, but not much improved since then.

ECM is still as strong as before, light mech hitboxes or hit registration is still off and SSRMs are still the only fast and reliable way to kill a light mech.

BAP as ECM counter...not sure if that would work so well. That would bring back all the SSRM Catapults.
BAP decreasing ECM radius by 50% would be nice.
And let us use TAG while under the effect of ECM. It's hard enough to TAG a fast moving light mech at short range long enough to get a lock. You can TAG them at longer ranges but LRMs fly so slow that they can outrun them.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the new PPC effect that disables ECM for 4 seconds. I didn't test this yet. How is this working? Effective counter or just a nice side effect?

Edited by Roadbuster, 21 February 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[Waylander40K]

If the BAP allowed lock on in a ECM buble at a reduced range and the SSRM's damege was lower, CAT's would probably still choose SRM over it, for dealling with larger meches. But if they wanted to take out lights that got 2 close in prefence instead by taking SSRM's thats fine with me.