12 replies to this topic

[Calimaw]

Here is a list of the current light 'mechs and their torso-twist ranges and their ratio to the highest range in the class.

RANGE

COMMANDO : 90º
SPIDER : 110º
JENNER : 120º
RAVEN : 120º

RATIO

COMMANDO : 75%
SPIDER : 91.666%
JENNER : 100%
RAVEN : 100%

I find that 90º is too little considering the handi-cap COMMANDOs have compared to the other lights. They are the least armored, least armed, and slowest light 'mech.

Where is the advantage to using COMMANDO (besides the hot tub)

I understand the game is trying to be as close to an emulation of the tabletop game as possible, but FPS games modeled after RTS Turn-based games may need some tweaking here and there. Couldn't they?

A few more degrees for the COMMANDO would at least allow them a better chance to hit the faster mechs behind him. No model has jump-jets to multiply their maneuverability either.

Let the SQUAWK'ing begin.

Edited by Calimaw, 15 January 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[Sandslice]

Did you take the Commando and Spider arms into consideration? Jenner and Raven might have 120 degrees, but those pseudo-arms have no arm arc.

[Solis Obscuri]

What's the arm traverse range for the Commando?

[Calimaw]

That's true, however the torso is your field of vision, it does you little good to to move your arms past where you can effectively use them.

They are 40º left and right from the center of your torso, and that means that they are 40º movement within your visible area, I don't know off hand what the field of view is in MWO, but if I had to take a guess I'd say it's 90º.

Consider that you can see 90º, and move your arms 40º within that range, that means you can fire 5º outside of your vision. That is still only 95º and effectively that extra 5º is blind.

Does that make sense?

[Aethon]

The torso twist range's difference between mechs is not something from tabletop; that is something tweaked in the game for balance reasons. I really see no reason it could not be tweaked further if needed.

Edited by Aethon, 15 January 2013 - 09:26 PM.

[Calimaw]

Here is are visual example.

LEGEND:

GREEN
Center of torso range (cross-hairs)...

RED
Arm range...

LIGHT BLUE
Vision range...

DARK BLUE
Over-lap of vision ranges...


Below are the JENNER / RAVEN ranges...



Below are the COMMANDO ranges...


Edited for correctness (I think!)

Edited by Calimaw, 15 January 2013 - 10:57 PM.

[Calimaw]

Does this look accurate to any one else?

[Solis Obscuri]

Ninety plus forty isn't 110.

[Calimaw]

This is why I need more information and citation. I don't quite know for certain if that 40º is either direction, or 40º total range.
However it certainly does not seem like 40º both directions when in game. Try it out.

[Calimaw]

I've recently noticed in game that the HUD which displays your direction in degrees gives some interesting numbers.
I loaded into the Frozen City map and started at 0º. I turned my mech as far right as possible and while the center of the torso stopped at 90º, the cross-hairs (not the round one) would bounce to and from 98 to 99 when trying to turn more. Inversely looking to the left would cause bouncing from 261 to 262. That nearly an extra 10 degrees either direction! Also the cross-hairs left their usual spot where it sat in the middle of your weapons group firing indicator.

I suppose a question so ask is if those extra degrees are merely visual, or do they actually work for hitting the target?

Any one with a Jenner or Raven care to test this and see what values they end up with?

[Calimaw]

Aha! "Twist-X". Apparently there must be a bug with this.

While "Twist-X" is giving me the extra 9º for turning the torso, but it doesn't give the extra 9º for the player camera.
It may also be the reason for why it doesn't seem like the arms are 40º either way in the extreme directions, and you wouldn't see that because the arms catch up so quickly any where else.

[Mr Mantis]

I maxed out 3 ravens and 3 commandos, and i always found the arms on the commando to be super useful. I would say more useful than being able to twist a bit more, also streaks lock on from the arm cross hair, so that would mean the center torso hit where the arms could.

[Calimaw]

The arms are useful, I'm not saying they're not. What I'm trying to figure out is why it seems like other lights have a much higher range of movement in the torso.

Jenners and Ravens have the higher range it seems (clearly theres some issues he that need solved when considering arms, twist-x), they certainly are capable of higher speeds, they are more armed and armored. The spider has less armament, but they are highly mobile.

I think they could use a small tweak, or maybe if they fix that bug with twist-x they wouldn't need it. I don't know, this is just my opinion.

I'd still like to get some hard facts on a few things to see what range is available for actual use.