25 replies to this topic

[Darling_In_The_MeXX]

Dear Devs,

I would like to tell you about the awesome Mech that you have created and how it is a monster. I am sorry to say that you need to discipline it, and do it good. There are more than the reasons I will state below as to why Ravens are to well equipped for the battlefield, but I will only touch the necessary.

First off, the Raven in comparison to every other scout available is at least twice as good. First of it is the heavies a scout can be thus giving it adequate armor and armaments. Compared to the Commando, it can move just as fast, torso twist more, and has an ECM ability to cloak it from the only major Light to Light weapon, the Streak2. In the Commandos place though, it is mainly out weighed.

As for the Jenner, there is no variant with ECM, thus the Raven will win every time. Even if the Raven has no ECM, its torso twist is still quite a lot more than the Jenner's. The only way that the Jenner could ever hope to be as good as a Raven, is if the speed of a Raven is decreased, thus the engine size maxes out at, say 280 or XL 280. After all of the boosts, 142.56 is still nothing to laugh at. I personally believe that and ECM commando will almost always win over a Jenner of the same speed and torso twist only because of the ECM.

I am not at all saying that the ECM is completely fine, but that the Raven is what makes the ECM seem so powerful.

With humility I say that I do not know no where near as much as you Devs do. Nor do I spend hours of my day working on the program. I can say that I have played this game over the past month enough to average close to three hours a day. I think that the Raven itself is to powerful and that the is one reason why the ECM is dreaded.

I know that all Mechs cannot be alike but please consider making the Raven a little weaker, be it through making it slower or other mechs faster, or more ECMs.

I thank you greatly for your time and consideration.

Gabriel

Edited by Oblivion5000, 10 January 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[Marj]

It'll be fine once the netcode is fixed. The only problem is that lights can't be hit by normal weapons consistently due to lag.

[MGoo]

Voted Other as its a net code lag shield problem - if you could actually hit them then they would not last as long at all

[Wolfman989]

Or you could turn mech collisions back on. Was the best way of dealing with lights before, and made piloting a light take actual skill if you want to stay alive.

[Strucker]

Netcode = Lagshield + 150kph + ECM + Streaks = alot of overpowered lights.

If they actually balance ECM and put back in collisions / knockdowns I think you'll see alot of balance return to the game because so many players just use these noob cookie cutter builds with no regards on how to actually play the game.

I guarantee knockdowns alone will cause half the community to QQ that their lights aren't indestructible anymore. Heck the reason I bought my Fang / Flame is because when it gets reintroduced it'll be a hell of an inside linebacker.

[Syllogy]

My 4 PPC K2 eats ravens for Breakfast, Cicadas for Lunch. Awsomes for Dinner, and tears apart Atlas's as an after-dinner workout.

[Elder Thorn]

ECM isn't the problem, it's the lagshield. I remember the same claims about absolutly OP for the Jenner, long before ECM and Lagshield were implemented

[ParasiteX]

Errr.. theres absolutely nothing wrong with the Raven 3L per se.. The hit box may need tweaking yeah.. But the real problem is the lagshield..
Fix that, and the Raven will be a bit more balanced to it's actual role.

And ECM is hardly the problem either... yeez.. People sure love to whine, when they suck..

Edited by ParasiteX, 11 January 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[Mechteric]

ECM isn't really the problem, its the hit detection. Sure ECM could use some tweaking because it does seem to nullify the use of LRMs which kinda sucks. But actually being able to do the proper amount of damage from laser hit scans on light mechs would help.

[Darling_In_The_MeXX]

Thank you gentlemen for the replies. I am unaware of a lag shield considering my computer was purchased to run this game at 50 fps with a solid internet. So the lag is a big bug. I still think that the only light Mech that one smart person would choose is the Raven. I could be wrong?

[Regrets]

It is a multiprong problem imo
- Raven is as good as a light gets, so which would you rather have on your team (thanks match maker!): ECM Commando or ECM Raven? JJ Jenner or ECM Raven?
- ECM needs minor debuff imo
- Ravens have very high speed for 3L (faster than Commando which is less armed ldo)

My vote, after ECM rework if it isn't fixed, then nerf the speed.

[Regrets]

Oh... or buff the other lights is another option.

[Gaan Cathal]

Regrets, on 11 January 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

It is a multiprong problem imo
- Raven is as good as a light gets, so which would you rather have on your team (thanks match maker!): ECM Commando or ECM Raven? JJ Jenner or ECM Raven?
- ECM needs minor debuff imo
- Ravens have very high speed for 3L (faster than Commando which is less armed ldo)

My vote, after ECM rework if it isn't fixed, then nerf the speed.

Thing is, if you go back to pre-ECM threads on this forum, you'll see that the general opinion on the Raven is that it is the worst light mech, or tied for worst with the Commando. Prior to ECM the Raven is an undergunned, JJ-less Jenner with poor hardpoint loadouts. The Commando at least did things different, the Raven was just a bad Jenner. Ergo, ECM is the obvious culprit for the current problem with the Raven. That said at least part of the problem is that people will always moan about the best light mech, because their issue is light mechs. All the hitbox/damage reduction claims made about the Raven now were made about the Jenner pre-ECM and those 'bugs' have mysteriously been transferred.

In short, l will (as a Raven pilot) grant that ECM could do with some tweaking, and that lagshielding is an issue (although not every time you miss a light is lagtanium guys, face it). It's not a crazy invunra-mech though. A month or so ago it was regarded as mediocre at best, and only one thing has changed since then.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Fix the netcode, get in game voice chat, and it's no longer so OP. Will ECM remain powerful? Yes, but it won't be quite so overwhelming.

[M4rtyr]

Marj, on 11 January 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

It'll be fine once the netcode is fixed. The only problem is that lights can't be hit by normal weapons consistently due to lag.

I agree with this... just for the fun of it going to say we need a plan B. I mean do we know they can fix the netcode/lagshield?

[Marj]

M4rtyr, on 12 January 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

I agree with this... just for the fun of it going to say we need a plan B. I mean do we know they can fix the netcode/lagshield?

The devs have said they've been working on the netcode for months. No idea when the fix will come through, but it is coming.

[Sennin]

I agree with fixing the Netcode but the Raven suffers a unique issue, hit boxes. I have shot a Raven that was standing still with an AC/20 and watched as nothing registered. It's an exercise in frustration at best.

[Edit: Spelling]

Edited by Sennin, 12 January 2013 - 07:50 PM.

[Revage]

Bring back collision and it'll work itself out... I've seen so many half-assed light pilots crash into my Atlas since knockdown went away, they're giving the skilled light pilots a bad name.

[Gaan Cathal]

Sennin, on 12 January 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

I agree with fixing the Netcode but the Raven suffers a unique issue, hit boxes. I have shot a Raven that was standing still with an AC/20 and watched as nothing registered. It's an exercise in frustration at best.

This is what I mean about issues with the Raven being raised all of a sudden since ECM appeared that were the province of the (now apparently completely fine) Jenner priorly. I'm not saying the event you referenced didn't happen, but there are known issues (although recently somewhat improved) with overheated/powered-down mechs not reporting in the correct location and thus causing stationary-target misses, as an example of an alternate explanation. I ran a Raven for months prior to ECM, and I saw others fairly frequently, so while outnumbered by Jenners they weren't exactly rare, and no hitbox issue was ever reported in any of the 'Nerf/Buff/Fix/Rebalance/h8Jenner Light Mechs' threads that I read. While I'll admit to not being a proffessional programmer, and will happily be corrected by one, it doesn't seem logical to me that adding ECM would significantly affect the hitbox for one mech chassis.

In short, it looks like a case of observer bias (not an accusation of lying, for reference, it's an established psychological phenomenon) to me at this point. The occam's razor explanation for stationary-target misses on a Raven would be, to my mind, one of the many already known causes of hit/miss misdetection.

As a caveat: yes I pilot Ravens, I've done so since I first started playing MWO. I do think ECM has issues that need down-toning and I do want collisions back in a functioning form (even if it will make me look like a derp occasionally, as a euro player I sometimes just can't avoid ramming my beak into a nearby assaultmech). And if someone can show me convincing evidence there is a hitbox issue with the Raven, I will be all behind fixing it. But as far as I can see that evidence isn't to be had at this point.

[MWHawke]

Issue is lagshield. Once this is fixed, JNRs will appear in numbers again. JNRs are the heaviest light mech class around. Once you are able to shoot directly at lights with lasers, that would make the game balanced. 100 kph compared to speed of light.. currently, 100 kph wins..