13 replies to this topic

[ThePhil]

Up until this patch I was indifferent about map selection. Alpine Peaks got me thinking about it again, and while I still believe that map select is a good option for the future, I feel that this new map introduced us to a new game mode more than it exposed the need for map selection.

Map selection has frequently been brought up with the release of Alpine Peaks. An alternative would be to make the large scale warfare maps a third and fourth gameplay option ie; Assault, Conquest, Large Assault, Large Conquest. (similar to BF3)

The reason for this is that ALL of the previous maps were similar in scope and available tactics. The similarity of maps in scale also meant that a mech build would be equally viable on any of the available maps. Granted, a mech which was heavy with energy weapons would struggle with heat more on the caldera, but it would still work.

But now that Alpine Peaks has been released to us there are certain builds which are otherwise viable (and very useful) on every other map, but are an enormous liability if that build drops into Alpine Peaks.

Off the top of my head they are:

Slow heavy/assault mechs(<60kph?)
Short range specialists at any speed (SRM, AC/20)
Most assaults

These builds are fun to play, and have their place, but it is not in Alpine Peaks. The map forces a different play style than the rest. Is this not the definition of a different game mode?

TLDR - if a player wants to play a mech geared toward Alpine Peaks they must build a mech which will very likely put them at a disadvantage on every other map. Adding Large scale options for Assault and Conquest allows the player the ability to specialize their mech rather than forcing them to run Jack of all trades builds that excel at nothing.

[Stringburka]

Randomizing maps, where different 'mechs are differently viable, encourages making well-rounded builds.

If we have map select, we basically have 'mech select too - select Frozen City and you'll play a match with PPC/LL builds, select caustic valleys and everyone will pack gausses.

The larger maps hurts SRM boats and limits the usefulness of ECM as targets can be spotted visually from further away. I say that's a good thing.

Having loads of different maps, where different equipment and 'mech types will shine, will encourage making balanced 'mechs with varied loadouts. That's a good thing according to me, as I don't want to be forced to play a certain boat build to be even remotely effective.

[Corvus Antaka]

I disagree in the sense that I like how alpine forces assault mechs to worry about having weapons for long and short range. one reason current maps are so brawl heavy is the tiny size. Now pilots need to consider more than weapons and armour and go 3 line/gline every single match.

whats more important is to add another 3 maps the size of alpine to the rotation, now people really have to think about what to take, instead of the biggest, slowest, most weapons & armour because the enemy spawns 1200 meters away and will be found.

On the other sie of the coin I do agree.

Ideally I'd like to see all current maps expanded to the size of Alpine.

since we have no clue what PGI is planning for CW and future map sizes, etc, its hard to say how to best push this forward.

[Peter Thorndyke IV]

Honestly,

that was the most fulfilling sight for a while now.

5 of 8 Mechs crawling with 40ish Kph over Alpine Peaks, getting blasted to pieces by fast moving long range units.

OK, while this may sound awkward,
Alpine Peaks is the first map we have that really allows tactical manouvering for a unit, aside from stick together and concentrate fire.

[sycocys]

I agree with Panda's point that this will inevitably force many players into bringing more balanced builds or just accept getting toasted on Alpine 9/10 times. Should be really good for the overall balance of things on all the maps I think.

[Stringburka]

Yeah, this also enables one type of 'mech that generally (with very few exceptions) have sucked so far: The fast-moving long-distance 'mech.

One other maps, light 'mechs have been forced to focus on close combat fighting. They will be forced into close combat quickly, and long-range weapon pack too light a punch to be used effectively. A single 'mech or two in the hands of a skilled player could pull of stuff like the PPC spider or Gauss raven, but those where more ways to make not-so-good chassis into something interesting builds.

On a map such as alpine, I imagine fast long-distance 'mechs can be actually very dangerous 'mechs, being able to kite the whole opposing team.

EDIT: I'm not saying no-one has made fast long-distance 'mechs work well before, individual players have used them very well occasionally (dropped with a PPC-cicada some matches ago that wrecked the opposing team on forest colony), but that's more a sign of an excellent player than an excellent 'mech.

Edited by Stringburka, 20 February 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Syllogy]

The map was built with a testing team that runs 12 vs. 12.

Alpine Peaks just needs to have the bases relocated for 8 vs. 8 until 12 vs. 12 comes along.

[focuspark]

WTF? Player ***** that maps are too small. Devs deliver bigger map. Player ***** that maps are too large. Seriously?!

[nTropic Device]

This map does need its own individual select. Map select be damned otherwise.

The expectation that I might get randomly dropped into this map is ruining my builds for all the other maps, and its doing the same to the rest of the players as well. The small maps are now noticeably more full of LRMs. My brawler builds are simply not viable when I have to take into account dropping into Alpine Peaks, especially if those are on the Heavy/Assault class mechs.

On any other drop a pilot will know what to expect in terms of terrain, and prepare accordingly. Putting Alpine Peaks into the mix ruins that kind of preparedness.

I love Alpine, but its throwing things a little off atm.

[Stringburka]

That's always the case when a new map comes. First time caustic was released people were probably (don't remember) crying over "can't use mah laser boats anymore".

[JTAlweezy]

we need a huge map, that is in a huge urban city. So the urban combat really happens. Then strategic positioning will start to make a huge appearance.

[focuspark]

nTropic Device, on 20 February 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

This map does need its own individual select. Map select be damned otherwise.

The expectation that I might get randomly dropped into this map is ruining my builds for all the other maps, and its doing the same to the rest of the players as well. The small maps are now noticeably more full of LRMs. My brawler builds are simply not viable when I have to take into account dropping into Alpine Peaks, especially if those are on the Heavy/Assault class mechs.

On any other drop a pilot will know what to expect in terms of terrain, and prepare accordingly. Putting Alpine Peaks into the mix ruins that kind of preparedness.

I love Alpine, but its throwing things a little off atm.

Oh noes! There might actually be a reason to not overly specialize now.

[JTAlweezy]

JTAlweezy, on 20 February 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

we need a huge map, that is in a huge urban city. So the urban combat really happens. Then strategic positioning will start to make a huge appearance.

emphesis on the "HUGE"

[Godswrath]

Syllogy, on 20 February 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

The map was built with a testing team that runs 12 vs. 12.

Alpine Peaks just needs to have the bases relocated for 8 vs. 8 until 12 vs. 12 comes along.

I would agree with this. My only complaint if you want to call it that is the current placement of the bases. It seems most fights take place on the same 40% of the map without the other 60% ever being used or seen for that matter.


I think it has great potential that is being wasted with bases being placed too close to each other.
If these larger maps are just a forethought to 12 vs 12 I'm super excited!!!
Sorry if this is already discussed elsewhere, I found this post first and figured it was a good spot