58 replies to this topic

[Norris J Packard]

Youngblood, on 20 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Speculation: Highlanders will have "Mk. 3s", two tons each. Usable on 'Mechs 90 tons and heavier.

Yay TT knowledge!

Of which I know the thrust values, and thus came to the 27m figure.

Also, they'll use Mk. 2 or Mk. 1's because Mk. 3's only support up to 75 tons.

Edited by Norris J Packard, 20 January 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Youngblood]

Norris J Packard, on 20 January 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Of which I know the thrust values, and thus came to the 27m figure.

Also, they'll use Mk. 2 or Mk. 1's because Mk. 3's only support up to 75 tons.

Whoops! I meant Mk. 4s.

[Norris J Packard]

Youngblood, on 20 January 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Whoops! I meant Mk. 4s.

Right, but in MWO Mk's for JJ's work the other way.

For example; all Lights use Mk. 5's. The Cataphract and Catapult uses Mk. 3's.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 18 January 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

We will not be increasing max height but we are in the process of shortening the time it takes to get to max height.

That means JJs will become only slightly less useless than they are now.

[Youngblood]

Norris J Packard, on 20 January 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Right, but in MWO Mk's for JJ's work the other way.

For example; all Lights use Mk. 5's. The Cataphract and Catapult uses Mk. 3's.

Regardless, I have a feeling it wouldn't be out of PGI's league to rustle up a new type unique to Assault 'Mechs with the HGN. I mean, I thought going out on a branch and putting twelve Mk. 5s on the Spider was a good thing, even if the 'Mech itself sucked.

[Alakarr]

In the novels, jump jets were a trade off of tonnage for maneuverability. As they are currently implemented, they are a trade off of tonnage for nothing. They are so slow, that jumping into an enemies rear is impossible. Even an Atlas can turn fast enough to be facing an enemy jumping to their rear. You are also nothing but an easy target as you float through the air like the Hindenburg.

Jump jets need some serious work.

[Koniving]

I agree with quite a few. The height is more or less fine. But the vertical "lift", the time it takes to get there? That needs to be adjusted for the Raven and Jenner. A Raven 4X weighing in at 20 tons with no weapons and 4 jump jets, can't get off the ground until near the end of the jump's fuel. At times it cannot even reach the supposed "jump height" it is stated to be able to reach. That's not good.

As the one person said, it needs an explosive burst of velocity with the rest of the fuel being usable to burn and adjust the landing or to slightly change flight directions. For example if you're doing a jump and it'll wind up with you out of bounds, you should be able to turn and thrust a bit in the opposite direction to reduce your travel distance. Or veer slightly left (very little of course) or right to avoid face-planting into a building when you're going to fall short of your goal to get on top of it.

Edited by Koniving, 21 January 2013 - 02:24 AM.

[Youngblood]

I highly support turning 'Mechs with Jump Jets into Gundams.

[Shiinore]

Youngblood, on 20 January 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

I highly support turning 'Mechs with Jump Jets into Gundams.

While in a frictionless environment such as space, constant thrust = constant velocity.

[Koniving]

Youngblood, on 20 January 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

I highly support turning 'Mechs with Jump Jets into Gundams.

I said slightly. I don't like MW4 MekTek's rapid direction changing or constantly airborne nature either. A "slight" direction change would be just like how hard it is to get off the ground now. Except we'll be able to get off the ground.

Part of the mech's boost into the air could actually be the legs physically "pushing" off the ground, without the explosive burst of velocity from jumpjets themselves. As they are, the legs just go limp and we somehow expect a few tiny jumpjets to get us off the ground without assisting it with any sort of push.

Also, the Raven 4x and Jenner seem to "weigh" the same as the Catapult as they are equally difficult to get off the ground. Meanwhile a Spider obviously weighs less as it very rapidly leaves the ground even with just 2 jumpjets.

Edited by Koniving, 20 January 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Sobakasu]

Shiinore, on 20 January 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

While in a frictionless environment such as space, constant thrust = constant velocity.

Constant thrust = constant acceleration
assuming no outside factors like gravity or losing/gaining mass.

Where was I going with this? I dunno but JJ lift needs work. The a couple ways would be increasing lift and reducing burn time to keep the max attainable height the same, they could also increase base thrust and scale it down over time giving you that burst to get off the ground and then some manuevering time in the air.

[Shiinore]

Sobakasu, on 20 January 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Constant thrust = constant acceleration
assuming no outside factors like gravity or losing/gaining mass.

The joke







Your head

[Name115734]

I have to disagree completely with buffing JJs, I think they are perfect right now. I use JJ's 99% of the time when playing. Just as a disclaimer I have over 1mil xp in an A1, 500k in a C1 and 300k in a C4, not bragging, just saying I KNOW JJs.

Yes, they changed how they work. Now I use "launching" points, rocks, buildings, other mechs whatever works. I adapted, I still love them and would not welcome a change TBH. The ONLY mech hurt by the changes in JJ is the 3D, where lift takes a very long time.

What I do want is not to get caught up on stupid little pieces of terrain, but that is another issue entirely.

[ICEFANG13]

On light mechs, its too heavy and slot requiring that even on Spider with 12 doesn't rocket off or anything. It barely floats, hits the ground and promptly dies.

[Stingz]

ICEFANG13, on 20 January 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

On light mechs, its too heavy and slot requiring that even on Spider with 12 doesn't rocket off or anything. It barely floats, hits the ground and promptly dies.

It definitely has less than 240m of Jump that you would get from 12 TT Jump Jets, a very bad difference.


The Highlander better have enough JJ stock to crush lights, those JJ cost 2 tons each.

Edited by Stingz, 20 January 2013 - 04:57 PM.

[Norris J Packard]

Stingz, on 20 January 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

It definitely has less than 240m of Jump that you would get from TT Jump Jets, a very bad difference.

One of the issues is scale.

The maps in MWO are very small, compared to what you might see in TT. So having a Mech being able to jump a quarter of a kilometer every five seconds is very much a bad idea in my book. I'd like to see adjustments, but not anything radical. Like maybe a 20-30% buff to the distance and nothing more. Right now the Highlander won't even be able to leap over the Oil Rig.

[Stingz]

Norris J Packard, on 20 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

One of the issues is scale.

The maps in MWO are very small, compared to what you might see in TT. So having a Mech being able to jump a quarter of a kilometer every five seconds is very much a bad idea in my book. I'd like to see adjustments, but not anything radical. Like maybe a 20-30% buff to the distance and nothing more. Right now the Highlander won't even be able to leap over the Oil Rig.

1/5 of a mech in JJ should get much more than now, the Spider-5V counts on JJ and speed to be useful at all.

[Das Wudone]

JJs should work depending on class type. if u have for example class V JJs u should be able to jump a significant height which seems perfect on heavier mechs (and also should be heavier). likewise if u have lower class JJs u should not jump that high hence why its on lighter chassis. i think devs need to implement various kinds of JJs not just 1 type per jump mech and put in a vertical jump stat on the mechlab.

[Corvus Antaka]

Norris J Packard, on 20 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

One of the issues is scale.

The maps in MWO are very small, compared to what you might see in TT. So having a Mech being able to jump a quarter of a kilometer every five seconds is very much a bad idea in my book. I'd like to see adjustments, but not anything radical. Like maybe a 20-30% buff to the distance and nothing more. Right now the Highlander won't even be able to leap over the Oil Rig.

Well first off the Highlander needs enough hieght to actually be able to jump on an atlas for a DFA as per the books. right now I barely see that happening with current jumpjets.

while we could justify the small maps as a curb on jumpjet distance, I still fail to see how using btech distances for jumps and having jumpjets making us harder to hit would be a bad thing - ideally jumpjets would help with avoiding missiles by being able to jump clear of missiles that cant turn fast enough to recover (like real missiles)

I'd settle for a 50% boost in hieght right now rather than a 100% to put them inline with btech - if indeed the current 12 JJ spider is hitting 125m in jump distance which does seem about right.

But outside netcode issues having good jumpjets only seems a good idea to me. DFA alone would really help improve battle dynamics. But also putting catapults on buildings..something that right now is just oh so barely possible and seems just too weak.

Add to the fact you need JJ fuel to soften landings or take leg damage - which again gimps the jets as they dont recharge while in the air - either they need to recharge or we need more fuel.

Maybe a 25% fuel increase? 50%?

[Caboose30]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 18 January 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

We will not be increasing max height but we are in the process of shortening the time it takes to get to max height.

See, I like this. I would love (however unlikely it may be) a simple, one sentence response on some of the pressing gameplay issues, even if it isn't something we want to hear.