63 replies to this topic

[Fooooo]

I really like the idea of reducing their max turning rate.

That one thing would mean circle strafing with ssrm's would no longer be really that effective as your ssrms will miss unless you can lead the target far enough before launching them. Giving at least some more skill in use of them at least.

Reducing the turn also may give another skillset in that creating angles (much like ww2 air combat) in a light vs light battle becomes more important for the mech without SSRMs, and vice versa, reducing of the angles becomes more important for the mech with SSRMs.

However thats just wild speculation.....

Edited by Fooooo, 19 January 2013 - 11:30 PM.

[Keisuke Nagisa]

My suggestions is that streaks are supposed to have a built in targeting system that requires a lock to get a launch. Once that lock is made you are supposed to get a 100% chance of hitting. This is fine. I think what needs to be don't to bring them in line and ensure that streak 6 do not take over the game is that lock needs to be harder to get. Make it so the lock takes a long time, has short retention, and is canceled once you fire a volley.

I think streaks are the real problem rather than ECM. ECM needs tweaks but it the streak missiles that ECM mechs carry that make them very dangerous.

[MWHawke]

VxSPEC, on 18 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Agreed using a Spider ECM against another ECM that has Streaks is impossible to win against!

Look at the weapon load on a Spider. It isn't Streaks that are causing the problem, it is the lack of offensive capability.

Eddy Hawkins, on 18 January 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

The SSRMs always TRY to hit CT, they hit L/RT, arms, and even legs so for at least some of the time that damage is split to differnt sectors. using your PPC comparison - if you hit all that damage hits the same spot.

Again using the PPC - yes it does the same damage, but it also causes the target to generate heat when hit, SSRMs do not do that.

Depending on the range, an AMS will shoot down about half the SSRMs shot at a mech (unless you are shooting six of them, in which case the AMS gets overwhelmd), AMS has no effect on PPC.

PPC has 600+ range, SSRM has 270 max

SSRM ammo explodes if hit, PPC does not (this is why you see SSRM fitted Stalkers self detnotate with full CT armor)

And depending on the speed/angle of the firer and the speed/angle of the target - yes SSRMs do infact miss.

Agree on all but the last part. Not sure if they DO miss in-game but they are not supposed to miss.

[Zeke Steiner]

I'd rather have streaks take a slight nerf to damage and let AMS actually shoot them down. This'll give AMS a buff which it needs and allow for ECM to take a nerf as more mechs will be carrying AMS. As is, ECM was designed to be the counter to streaks and LRMs which is unneccessary as there is a piece of equipment with that name. Yet Anti-missle system only counters LRMs and does it poorly unless the entire team is equipped with AMS. I believe the rational that led to buffing LRMs was because entire teams ran with AMS to counter them, effectively reducing its efficacy on the battlefield.

Edited by Zeke Steiner, 20 January 2013 - 01:13 AM.

[RiceyFighter]

I think the balance should be, if you try to streak a mech with AMS, AMS will destroy half of the streaks for every 50 meters.

[MustrumRidcully]

Allow gaining missile locks only when missile launchers are loaded or the missile is still underway. Once it hits, and the launcher is still reloading, lose all missile lock until a missile launcher is ready again.

This forces people to either stagger shots between missile launches, or to re-lock weapons every time. That would indirectly lower the Streak cycle rate.

[focuspark]

I like the idea of only gaining a lock on after missiles launched but the problem is that the missiles only travel 270m and travel at 200m/s meaning you have 1.35 seconds at best to get a lock on. That either means lock on happens very quickly or are very easy to obtain.

Better to just remove the lock on mechanic from the game and give SSRM some other bonus.

[Chunkylad]

Furniture, on 18 January 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

I can see that you've never piloted a Spider. Try it. If you can even last through getting the basics ground out on all of the variants, come back and tell me that Streaks are perfectly fine.

+1 for that, love getting my rear armor blown off in 2 hits despite me having it higher than my front armor. Also love getting my Spider's arms, torsos, and legs damaged from a single salvo.

[focuspark]

SSRM are broken because unlike pretty much every other weapon in the game, they require zero skill to use. They need to be fixed. The real problem with SSRM (and LRM) is the guided missile lock on mechanism; it's what needs to go.

[CancR]

focuspark, on 20 January 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

SSRM are broken because unlike pretty much every other weapon in the game, they require zero skill to use. They need to be fixed. The real problem with SSRM (and LRM) is the guided missile lock on mechanism; it's what needs to go.

I agree with this but it's tricky. Streaks not missing is how they work in battle tech so making them function in the table top but be fair in the game is a hard balance.

I'd like to see a damage nerf first. If missiles did 1 damage per misses instead 2.5 then having a no skill weapon would be far less appealing and not as much as a problem for fellow light pilots who like using skill. If 3 streaks only did 6 damage insead of 15 then I feel like I could stand and fight a streak light.

[Capt Caveman]

A suggestion for the streaks is to not allow them on ECM mechs or when mounted on an ECM mech the ECM interferes with the streak launcher electronics not allowing them to function as streaks but as normal SRM2's and the mechs that mount streaks(either ECM mechs with no ECM, or non-ECM mechs) that mount streaks will have to hold the target reticle over the target mech getting a lock to get the streaks to fire or the launcher wont fire at all. This way, the ECM mechs will have a choice to mount ECM and have srm2's or not mount ECM and have streak srm2's while the non-ECM mechs will not have to make that choice, which seems fair.

Edited by Capt Caveman, 20 January 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[focuspark]

I still feel like streaks need to lose the lock on mechanic completely. It might be time to admit that just because it worked for TT doesn't mean it'll work for MW:O.

[CancR]

focuspark, on 20 January 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

I still feel like streaks need to lose the lock on mechanic completely. It might be time to admit that just because it worked for TT doesn't mean it'll work for MW:O.

a fair point. If they are going to keep the lock rule they should at least keep the spirit of the rules. The spirt of the rules is that SSRMS spreads alot of little bits of damage all over, so the damage should be nerfed to hell (1/missle)

[focuspark]

CancR, on 20 January 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

a fair point. If they are going to keep the lock rule they should at least keep the spirit of the rules. The spirt of the rules is that SSRMS spreads alot of little bits of damage all over, so the damage should be nerfed to hell (1/missle)

Agreed. Whatever it is they do, at that end of the day SRM needs to be equal in desirability to SSRM2.

[Damocles 1]

the streaks have already been nerfed enough, lets just hope they fix nerf ECM

[focuspark]

Damocles 1, on 20 January 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

the streaks have already been nerfed enough, lets just hope they fix nerf ECM

Disagreed. SSRM are still broken due to being overly powerful for their weight, heat, and space limitations. They always connect giving them a vastly higher DPS than they deserve.

[Damocles 1]

focuspark, on 20 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Disagreed. SSRM are still broken due to being overly powerful for their weight, heat, and space limitations. They always connect giving them a vastly higher DPS than they deserve.

you cant sub-target, nuff said. were you even playing 6 months ago? have you forgotten what really OP'd streaks are like? and you know what, i still managed to kick a ton of streak-cat *** then too. its almost too easy now. As it is, the "ALWAYS HITS" decree is a neccissary evil to compensate for fast lights, and more importantly, laggy 32-bit systems that cant properly run the engine. theres is only one build that brings this up and its generally at a disadvantage on the battlefeild anyway, especially with uber ECM on the board. otherwise if you cant handle getting 6 ssrms at a time its time to rethink your build

[focuspark]

Damocles 1, on 20 January 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

you cant sub-target, nuff said. were you even playing 6 months ago? have you forgotten what really OP'd streaks are like? and you know what, i still managed to kick a ton of streak-cat *** then too. its almost too easy now. As it is, the "ALWAYS HITS" decree is a neccissary evil to compensate for fast lights, and more importantly, laggy 32-bit systems that cant properly run the engine. theres is only one build that brings this up and its generally at a disadvantage on the battlefeild anyway, especially with uber ECM on the board. otherwise if you cant handle getting 6 ssrms at a time its time to rethink your build

Ooh, way to go all hostile there. Still haven't proven your point or convinced me that SSRM are not unbalanced. When was the last time you saw SRM2 on the battle field? Hell, I barely see SRM4 at all because for the weight you have to use SSRM2 if you have idea on the math.

Saying that SSRM is the fix for poor netcode and lag is ridiculous. Fix the netcode or reduce the max speed further to compensate, but don't add in broken weapons to fix a broken system. ECM is a third broken system, introduced to limit SSRM, which is there to mask over poor lag in the netcode.

[MasterBLB]

The best is to leave streaks damage/flight speed/lock-on mechanics as they are fine.The only what may use some tweak is cockpit shake and darkening effect,this (along old mechanics when streaks always hit CT without spread) is what made Streak Cats so imbalanced.

The problem is completely ****** up implementation of ECM,combined with lag shield of light mechs.I doubt anyone who met non-light mech with 1-3 streaks found it overpowered.

So guys,stop whinning about streaks,instead let's make pressure on PGI to make the order with ECM,as THIS is what really have to be fixed.

[MustrumRidcully]

focuspark, on 20 January 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

I like the idea of only gaining a lock on after missiles launched but the problem is that the missiles only travel 270m and travel at 200m/s meaning you have 1.35 seconds at best to get a lock on. That either means lock on happens very quickly or are very easy to obtain.

Better to just remove the lock on mechanic from the game and give SSRM some other bonus.

If you're referring to my idea, you misread the suggestion. YOu can start getting a lock at the point where your launcher is ready, so before you start shooting, and you can gain a lock and sustain a lock until after a launched missile has hit.

So for a Streak, you lock, fire, the missile hits, and you lose the lock. Now you wait until the Streak launcher is ready to fire again, and then you can gain a lock, fire, the missile hits, and you lose the lock.