20 replies to this topic

[CasperovZA]

Guys,

I've just had a heated debate with a buddy of mine. Topic was, "what the hell is the point of the Awesome, when you can buy a perfectly good Atlas. I thought about that before I started with the usual argument, "that it's not about one mech its about how the team operates with the mechs that they have available blah blah blah." the debate carried on and I stuck to my guns saying that it's not about the bigger mech when the team operates as one. so I left it at that. BUT THEN!

Last night I had a match where there must have been atleast 6 Atlas battle mechs. We had 2 and the next biggest was a 2 catapults and an awesome the rest were smaller mechs, centurions etc..... THEY ***** US didn't even take out one atlas! They have more armour, more fire power and can just about keep up with a catapult at range. So far it's very seldom that I've seen many mechs, smaller than an Atlas, go toe to toe and come out tops. My main issue is that the awesome isn't much faster, so out manoeuvring an Atlas isn't very appropriate and the risk when trading blows just isn't worth it. How is that fair? Is the Awesome just inferior to the Atlas? It's not like I can even snipe the ******** from distance....they do that better too...

Please I DIG THIS GAME!!! but it does seem a bit TOP heavy.

[destraudo]

Prefaced with I am no expert.

What i would say is all the videos i see of LRM boat assaults are awesome not atlas. Maybe the awesome has more missile hardpoints and as such is the better assault mech at extreme range while the atlas has more advantage at closer range?

[Theron Branson]

No, the way the game is set up is all wrong for the Awesome. The Awesome in TT was "Awesome" but wasn't really made to go toe to toe with 20 more tons on its own. This is why in TT you play by tonnage and for 1 Atlas you could have a Locust and an Awesome. Imagine a light mech just shredding the rear armor the whole time of the Atlas while the Awesome is the one the Atlas is going to focus on. Right now, with the Heat issues of the Awesome and the "Assault vs Assault" MM, the system is flawed not the mech.

[Nash]

Hey CasperovZA

first of all. Every mech has some advantages and some disadvantages. Even if the AS7 is much heavier as the AWS the AWS has some quiet good hardpoint configurations.

Second.At every match that starts there should be an equal amount of mechs at each team of the same class, be it light, medium, heavy or assault. Which mech in detail doesn't matter so at the assault class there can be either an AS7 or an AWS right now.

Sure if you try to fight an AWS 1vs1 against an AS7 most times the AS7 will win. (mostly but not always ^^ ) It depends on the map, the team the weapon configuration and much more important...the pilot.

I personaly handle most times a light (Jenner) and I'm quiet happy if I could fight a single AS7. If there would be an AWS which is configured with several lasers...I'm not really happy about that because than I know it's getting much more difficult for me than fighting the AS7. Anyway, both mechs could be killed much faster if I'm not fighting alone. As soon as I'm on a team I try to lure the assault mech around so that it is presenting it's back to my teammates who try to take it out much faster because they have more weapons than I do.

So in the end it's a team-play game and you are going to be much more succesfull if you try to play as a team and not as a lone wolf. So it doesn't really matter what kind of mech you pilot.

How was Garth Erlam saying:

Quote

Q: I think this is the first Mechwarrior game where lights are not only completely viable but deadly when heavier mechs aren't supported. Feels like they are right in line with where the live tactically in tabletop. This is *without* the nod to economics but that just sweetens the deal. [Berserker]
A: As a light pilot, I absolutely love the way the different weight classes interact. As a Jenner pilot, I fear no Atlas, but when I see Cicada or Hunchback coming at me I start sweating. It's great that it's like rock, paper, scissors, only rock beats scissors 60% of the time, not 100.

Frankly I've had some of the best 'duels' in my gaming career versus other Lights. [Garth]

cheers

[Tyrfin]

I would definitely not try to go toe-to-toe with an AS-7 in an AWS. I was just playing with my -K, walked into a little scrap with three AWS at the same time-three dead Awesomes in about forty-five seconds. CT just can't take that gauss punch.

[Grenadapult]

Casperov, I think I may have been in there with you. Unless I was in a different match against a super-force of Atlases. It wasn't even a match, not one kill for our team. I thought it was more than just the game being unfair. I am NOT arguing against that point, but the Atlas did DID use some strategy. They split into three groups, but noone was alone. The team I was on just kind of scattered. I DO KNOW that when i realized what was happeneing and tried to run away, it was too late. I had at least two Atlases pound my back while i tried to catch up to the teammates I THOUGHT were watching my flank. I have been playing XBOX live for 4 years, and know from that where every player is balanced, that when you get a full team with headests who play together regularly, the opposing team is gonna die. If the case is a team like that AND they all bought Atlases, I think every team they go up against will be toast. I don't car how BA a Jenner pilot is. If 4 Atlas stand in a circle facing outward, he is dead as soon as he tries to make move.
It really SUCKS to go up against a team like that, but to take away the fact that 8 Atlas will stomp anyone is taking away from the reality of the game. What if..... teams were matched by tonnage, to prevent an unfair physical advantage. Even just getting the tonnage closer than what I saw.

[John MatriX82]

The Atlas is meant to be a moving apartment block with a ton of firepower and resistance. The Awesome isn't suited for this, the head hitbox is very large as well side and center torsoes are, with much less armor than an AS7.

The awesome is a good medium to long range support platform. Actually the trial one is a decent build, but suffers lack of LRM ammo, the matchmaker couples it often with an Atlas on the other side and the armor is misplaced and low on the front in general.. so definitely make those 360 lrms count by unleashing them only on absolutely steady targets, then rely on the double LLas trying to keep within 450m but not closer.

However I personally don't like it due to the above drawbacks, and I don't plan to buy one at all.. Any Atlas is way better, of course for my tastes and the way I like to play; I do really hope the matchmaker will couple an Awesome with another Awesome instead of an Atlas, or at least consider an 80 ton Assault mech to be coupled only with 80 to 90 ton enemy mechs.. no 95 or 100 tons. However we still have so few mechs in the heavy/assault category that I guess this problem will be solved only once the Highlander and the Stalker will come, leaving the latter to be coupled against an Awesome and the highlander vs Atlases.

[Ewigan]

i actually find the trial awesome a decent build. one of the better trials, clearly for fire support but CAN go toe to toe with other mechs in a brawl.

[Phatel]

You don't brawl a Atlas, it's what they are good at. Hit and run, use cover, fall back and shoot again. Atlas are not that hard to kill, if you avoid thinking you can brawl with it.

[Mordin Ashe]

Actually huge Awesome central torso makes the whole discussion about Atlas vs Awesome rather pointless. Right now I have 3 elite Atlases and no need to go for three elite Awesomes ... But once we get another assault, I may reconsider.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 06 November 2012 - 06:38 AM.

[Elder Thorn]

CasperovZA, on 06 November 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

Guys,

I've just had a heated debate with a buddy of mine. Topic was, "what the hell is the point of the Awesome, when you can buy a perfectly good Atlas. I thought about that before I started with the usual argument, "that it's not about one mech its about how the team operates with the mechs that they have available blah blah blah." the debate carried on and I stuck to my guns saying that it's not about the bigger mech when the team operates as one. so I left it at that. BUT THEN!

Last night I had a match where there must have been atleast 6 Atlas battle mechs. We had 2 and the next biggest was a 2 catapults and an awesome the rest were smaller mechs, centurions etc..... THEY ***** US didn't even take out one atlas! They have more armour, more fire power and can just about keep up with a catapult at range. So far it's very seldom that I've seen many mechs, smaller than an Atlas, go toe to toe and come out tops. My main issue is that the awesome isn't much faster, so out manoeuvring an Atlas isn't very appropriate and the risk when trading blows just isn't worth it. How is that fair? Is the Awesome just inferior to the Atlas? It's not like I can even snipe the ******** from distance....they do that better too...

Please I DIG THIS GAME!!! but it does seem a bit TOP heavy.

In my opinion, the Awesome is not made to go ehad on with the atlas, you will loose every time you attack the atlas frontal.
However, during closed beta, i played the awesome as some kind of Cavalry Mech. I would stay in the second line until some enemy, preferably an Atlas, is isolated or his back / flank exposed, than charge to take this one out quickly and fall back. This was possible with pretty much every awesome variant that was available, the best one for this was the AWS8-R with 4x SRM6.

BUT: I did not try this setup since OB, so i am not sure if it still works, as i think there were some changes to SRMs and it seems like there will be more changes in todays patch, one has to try this setup and see for himself. Important is, to have the biggest enigne on it you can get, XL helps, but isn't necesarry at all costs.

[destraudo]

It would be great if for premade vs premade and premade vs pug matches, premade sides had a tonnage limit shared between the side.

You would set the tonnage limit/budget so that everyone could roll out in a heavy, but to field an assault some of the players would have to choose medium or light mechs to free up the tonnage for the other players.

Of course this would require a screen where players going into a premade match could co ordinate their mech selections etc. Would not hurt to throw a map on that screen so that players could move icons representing the mechs used to various locations to set out basic tactics. Would be even better if those icons had transparent circles around them to indicate the range of their weapons.

I have gone off on a tangent.

[CasperovZA]

Grenadapult, on 06 November 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

What if..... teams were matched by tonnage, to prevent an unfair physical advantage. Even just getting the tonnage closer than what I saw.

I like that! it would be similar to the Warhammer 40K system of setting up team limitations. each team is allocated a set amount tonnage, dependant on the map of course, and then each team needs to carefully pick out the mechs and loads best suited within the tonnage. it will add another tactical dimension to the game. You will actually require everyone to have a planned set role (practised) and to be actually good at it. a light, medium and heavy mech specialist. As opposed to the usual steam role of heavier mechs.

[CasperovZA]

Ewigan, on 06 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

i actually find the trial awesome a decent build. one of the better trials, clearly for fire support but CAN go toe to toe with other mechs in a brawl.

I hear you. But my argument is, " why does the Awesome exist, if the Atlas can do what ever it can do, but better?"

[Zerikin]

The awesome is just bad, especially with PPCs being unusable.

[CasperovZA]

Phatel, on 06 November 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

You don't brawl a Atlas, it's what they are good at. Hit and run, use cover, fall back and shoot again. Atlas are not that hard to kill, if you avoid thinking you can brawl with it.

I like the tactical advice but remember that the Awesome isn't that much faster than that of the Atlas.( taking cover and coming in from another angle just isn't going to work) Putting that aside, fighting any Atlas pilot, worth his stuff, will out range you with those LRMs any day of the week. the Awesome cannot gorilla fight an Atlas. Maybe a Centurion class can but not the Awesome.

[CasperovZA]

Mordin Ashe, on 06 November 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

Actually huge Awesome central torso makes the whole discussion about Atlas vs Awesome rather pointless. Right now I have 3 elite Atlases and no need to go for three elite Awesomes ... But once we get another assault, I may reconsider.

Exactly my point!! This is what I've been saying the whole time. What is the point of the Awesome when the Atlas does everything so much better?

[Theron Branson]

The point of the Awesome is it's tonnage 80 vs 100. If we were in a game that meant you get a 100tons to play with then some will take the Atlas and others would take the light and an Awesome to the fight. If you have 2 or mechs vs 1 then it becomes interesting. Now, the way the game is setup is just not worth using the Awesome unless your against another Awesome.

[Flapdrol]

You can turn an awesome into a good lrm boat, then agian you can do that with an atlas as well and you'll have more tonnage for protection and ammo.

[Banditman]

Imagine a game where each team has a tonnage limit. Would you rather have two Awesomes or 1 Atlas + 1 Dragon for 160 tons?

This is the missing piece right now. Limits. Once there are limits, the concept of "doing more with less" will make the game much more interesting.