448 replies to this topic

[Onmyoudo]

An Atlas is a damage soak. It has the most armour, it has the most durability and in a lot of cases it has ECM. If you are not soaking damage, you are not doing your job. Did you get 600 damage? Great. Did you get 2 kills? Well done. Did the rest of your team die because they got alpha struck to death while you were playing coy buggers in the buildings? Then you're next, bucko, and the game has been lost. If you're winning, then it's likely because someone else has been soaking up the damage that you should have been sharing.

Due to the nature of how MWO works, an Atlas is always needed on the front lines. Massive burst damage and concentrated fire can and will annihilate members of your team that, if able to actually fire their weapons (perhaps due to the enemy team instead firing at the large 100 ton behemoth striding towards them) will allow your team to do more damage overall than you alone can manage. 400 + 400 is better than the 600 you will do by yourself.

Your Atlas is not an LRM boat. Get a Catapult. Your Atlas is not a sniper. Get a Stalker. If you want to use those weapons, by all means do so - on your way towards the battle lines. Your mech is one of the most important in any game you play and you must use its strengths to help your team succeed. Because it is your team that is important - if you yourself get blown up with only 200 damage done, but succeed in drawing enough fire to let your team win the match, then your role has been fulfilled and you can congratulate yourself on a job well done. That is your purpose. Start doing it.



Disclaimer: a Stalker could also arguably fill this role, but for several obvious reasons is not as effective.

[Blue Boutique]

Why, why woould you not be a meatshield for the Atlas?

[Scryed]

Onmyoudo, on 13 March 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

An Atlas is a damage soak. It has the most armour, it has the most durability and in a lot of cases it has ECM. If you are not soaking damage, you are not doing your job. Did you get 600 damage? Great. Did you get 2 kills? Well done. Did the rest of your team die because they got alpha struck to death while you were playing coy buggers in the buildings? Then you're next, bucko, and the game has been lost. If you're winning, then it's likely because someone else has been soaking up the damage that you should have been sharing.

Due to the nature of how MWO works, an Atlas is always needed on the front lines. Massive burst damage and concentrated fire can and will annihilate members of your team that, if able to actually fire their weapons (perhaps due to the enemy team instead firing at the large 100 ton behemoth striding towards them) will allow your team to do more damage overall than you alone can manage. 400 + 400 is better than the 600 you will do by yourself.

Your Atlas is not an LRM boat. Get a Catapult. Your Atlas is not a sniper. Get a Stalker. If you want to use those weapons, by all means do so - on your way towards the battle lines. Your mech is one of the most important in any game you play and you must use its strengths to help your team succeed. Because it is your team that is important - if you yourself get blown up with only 200 damage done, but succeed in drawing enough fire to let your team win the match, then your role has been fulfilled and you can congratulate yourself on a job well done. That is your purpose. Start doing it.



Disclaimer: a Stalker could also arguably fill this role, but for several obvious reasons is not as effective.

Well when you start buying me MC then you can tell me how to play otherwise you can sit on it and spin.

Tank that!

[KinLuu]

There is no "tank" role in this game. Everything dies in seconds.

The job of an atlas is doing as much damage as possible. Drawing fire is the job of the fast lights - because in MWO evading damage is much better than taking damage. And much easier.

[RockWolf]

Atlas pilots... I hate you. You stay in cover and wait. I shoot, I move and I keep the enemy busy.

Next time you run LRM's, I will team kill you. Your job is not stay at base and Lrm people. Its to smack the enemy and push their lines.

Please be useful for the team.

Sincerely yours,

A cataphract pilot.

[Alistair Winter]

An interesting discussion. I'm kind of on the fence on this one.

If you are right, then the Atlas is the only mech in the game that basically only has 1 role, and therefore only a few different options when it comes to weaponry. Every other mech can be outfitted as a brawler, sniper, lrm boat, etc. Except for the Atlas?

The thing is, matches can be won even without a single atlas on the team, or even a single assault mech. You just have to adjust your tactics accordingly. Especially now that there is no weight balance. The heaviest team has a significant advantage, but it doesn't always win.

In my opinion, an Atlas LRM boat isn't nearly as annoying as a lance of heavy mechs refusing to go first, or even join the fight when a medium or heavy mech is leading the charge. There are so many Puggers who are happy to watch their teammates cross the ridge, while hanging back and waiting for easier kills. Those guys are a much bigger problem than Atlas pilots who refuse to be cannon fodder.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 13 March 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[Iron Hyena]

As an Atlas pilot that does charge in and take fire, I would like to say.

Dear team, when I say we are charging this position, and you are all following me, as soon as someone shoots a small laser at you, don't KITTENING RUN AWAY,

Edited by Dornhal, 13 March 2013 - 01:54 AM.

[Etrius1022]

If you think an atlas is durable, imagine how much more durable it is when it's trying to get some cover and strips enemy mechs before they get in their effective range.

If you want the DDC to be your tank, then stay with it, under it's umbrella. Just remeber it's a slow mech. Stay with the atlas untill those 2+ enemy ravens start circling it, they always come.

If you think crossing open terain is bad in most mechs, try doing it at about 50kph.

Edited by Etrius1022, 13 March 2013 - 01:50 AM.

[Scryed]

Etrius1022, on 13 March 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

If you think an atlas is durable, imagine how much more durable it is when it's trying to get some cover and strips enemy mechs before they get in their effective range.

If you want the DDC to be your tank, then stay with it, under it's umbrella. Just remeber it's a slow mech. Stay with the atlas untill those 2+ enemy ravens start circling it, they always come.

If you think crossing open terain is bad in most mechs, try doing it about 50kph.

Yup main reason why I sling missiles, I am too dang slow to do an effective rush , and people always leave me behind, so I will do like everyone else, PLAY LIKE I WANT TO.

[KinLuu]

Alistair Winter, on 13 March 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

[...]
In my opinion, an Atlas LRM boat isn't nearly as annoying as a lance of heavy mechs refusing to go first, or even join the fight when a medium or heavy mech is leading the charge. There are so many Puggers who are happy to watch their teammates cross the ridge, while hanging back and waiting for easier kills. Those guys are a much bigger problem than Atlas pilots who refuse to be cannon fodder.

I hate people crossing ridge. Why do they do it? It is suicide most of the time... Both teams have a perfect field of fire on the whole ridge. Crossing ridge sounds like walking into a firing squad to me. Flanking works far better. There is a lot of cover on the flanks.

Dont cross ridge in PUG-games. Wait for the enemy to be stupid enough to do so, or go for a flank.

[Adridos]

They die as fast as anthing else.

[Tombe0]

RockWolf, on 13 March 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Atlas pilots... I hate you. You stay in cover and wait. I shoot, I move and I keep the enemy busy.

Next time you run LRM's, I will team kill you. Your job is not stay at base and Lrm people. Its to smack the enemy and push their lines.

Please be useful for the team.

Sincerely yours,

A cataphract pilot.

You might want to thank me sitting back (few) hundred meters next time I alpha the leg off of that annoying commando circling you and nibbling you to death.

An Atlas sitting back from the main scuffle doesn't mean the pilot doesn't know what he's doing... Most likely he knows far better what he's doing than you ever think.

It's true that an Atlas is a terrifying sight, but it comes with a dire cost too: You're a target the size of a mountain, and EVERYBODY, I mean absolutely everybody wants to kill an Atlas.

So next time you start foaming at mouth for that Atlas pilot staying a bit back, remember that he migth be the only thing keeping YOU alive because he stays back and uses his superior range to advantage.

Note: ALL my Atlas builds have now gone from closerange brawlers to sniper builds with ERPPCs / ERLLs / LRMs since the lag spike fixes

[Training Instructor]

People use DDC LRM boats and then sit miles behind everyone else, because they're afraid of getting tagged and actually being vulnerable to return LRM fire. Since they only have 2 laser hardpoints, they often don't even bring their own tag, expecting someone else to do it for them.

Here's a clue DDC LRm boat with no tag. I'm not carrying LRMs, so find your own targets. Or buy a stalker and make a self-sufficient LRM boat that can tag its own targets and defend itself with medium lasers, all while firing more tubes than you.

[Idolo]

I'm perfectly willing to follow an atlas pilot into a charge, problem is most of them pick the worst time to make said charge. When i'm being shot at bij 5LL, hear the plinging of projectiles and see the missile warning flashing in overdrive my train of thought will be "screw you guys im going home" and in this context home is cover.

[Mr 144]

RockWolf, on 13 March 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Atlas pilots... I hate you. You stay in cover and wait. I shoot, I move and I keep the enemy busy.

Next time you run LRM's, I will team kill you. Your job is not stay at base and Lrm people. Its to smack the enemy and push their lines.

Please be useful for the team.

Sincerely yours,

A cataphract pilot.

Heavy Brawlers....I hate you. You shadow me, using my bulk as cover as I plod along. You give me a sense of security, backup, a force multiplier. As soon as the engagement starts, you run away from me, most times withdrawing completely from the brawl when it gets tough. You don't shoot the same things your Atlas is, you don't protect him from faster flankers while he handles the meat of the oppostition. You leave your Atlas alone...high-and-dry...stranded...at the slightest scratch of your heavy's paint.

Next time you run from a fight and leave me to 'tank' an entire team solo, I will spin in circles spamming fire in all directions...God knows I can't disengage to TK ya...you've already ran.

Please be useful for the Atlas if you expect him to tank.

Sincerely yours,

An Atlas Pilot

[Dragonkindred]

Technically all assault mechs are supposed to be damage soaks, so your post is bias.

Atlas's have a lot of hard points that can be used in lots of ways. I will not be dictated by you or any other. I've used LRMs, sniper builds and brawler builds. Guess what, they all work.

Have you ever considered using a D-DC to cover your support mechs? Would you want that D-DC to be spec'd as a brawler? No, you use a spec that complements the team you are working with. That may be a mixed spec or sniper or LRMs.

If weight limits are put in, then you can come here and complain.

[Alistair Winter]

KinLuu, on 13 March 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

I hate people crossing ridge. Why do they do it? It is suicide most of the time... Both teams have a perfect field of fire on the whole ridge. Crossing ridge sounds like walking into a firing squad to me. Flanking works far better. There is a lot of cover on the flanks.

Dont cross ridge in PUG-games. Wait for the enemy to be stupid enough to do so, or go for a flank.

I think your strategy is too shallow. Let's say you're playing Caustic on Conquest, one team has Sigma, Epsilon and Theta, and they were first to get inside the caldera. The other team has Gamma, Kappa and they're on the other side of the ridge.

If neither team crosses the ridge to engage, the defending team (with three bases) win. If the attacking team (with two bases) moves around the caldera, they will have the lower position and so they'll have less cover to hide behind. The defending team can hide their legs behind the ridge, while the attacking team trying to flank them will be completely exposed, unless they take the long way around (e.g. 3-line) and lose a lot of points doing so.

This is why the caldera is so hot, to provide some balance between attacking and defending team. So if you're in the caldera, you have the advantage of cover, but you're more prone to overheating.

If the team has good communication and a skilled scout, they should have their scout telling the rest of their team where to cross the ridge, giving one team the benefit of attacking the other team's weakest spot. In that case, crossing the ridge isn't a bad thing, because you do more damage while the opposing team tries to adjust their positions.

[Scryed]

Onmyoudo, on 13 March 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

An Atlas is a damage soak. It has the most armour, it has the most durability and in a lot of cases it has ECM. If you are not soaking damage, you are not doing your job. Did you get 600 damage? Great. Did you get 2 kills? Well done. Did the rest of your team die because they got alpha struck to death while you were playing coy buggers in the buildings? Then you're next, bucko, and the game has been lost. If you're winning, then it's likely because someone else has been soaking up the damage that you should have been sharing.

Due to the nature of how MWO works, an Atlas is always needed on the front lines. Massive burst damage and concentrated fire can and will annihilate members of your team that, if able to actually fire their weapons (perhaps due to the enemy team instead firing at the large 100 ton behemoth striding towards them) will allow your team to do more damage overall than you alone can manage. 400 + 400 is better than the 600 you will do by yourself.

Your Atlas is not an LRM boat. Get a Catapult. Your Atlas is not a sniper. Get a Stalker. If you want to use those weapons, by all means do so - on your way towards the battle lines. Your mech is one of the most important in any game you play and you must use its strengths to help your team succeed. Because it is your team that is important - if you yourself get blown up with only 200 damage done, but succeed in drawing enough fire to let your team win the match, then your role has been fulfilled and you can congratulate yourself on a job well done. That is your purpose. Start doing it.



Disclaimer: a Stalker could also arguably fill this role, but for several obvious reasons is not as effective.

YOU!
















YOU WILL BE MY MEATSHIELD!
















LETS DO THIS!

Edited by Scryed, 14 March 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[Onmyoudo]

Dragonkindred, on 13 March 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

Technically all assault mechs are supposed to be damage soaks, so your post is bias.

I did say Stalkers could be used in this manner, but would be less effective. Awesomes don't have nearly enough armour in MWO to do this.

As a bunch of people have mentioned, it is valid to expect your team to back up the Atlas, and I understand the frustration when it doesn't happen. This is an issue with the way the playerbase plays though, and not sure how that can be addressed.

Tombe0, on 13 March 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

It's true that an Atlas is a terrifying sight, but it comes with a dire cost too: You're a target the size of a mountain, and EVERYBODY, I mean absolutely everybody wants to kill an Atlas.

That's exactly my point. And the Atlas is far better equipped to handle that than the cataphracts and hunchbacks who are going to be getting it to the face if you're not.

Alistair Winter, on 13 March 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

An interesting discussion. I'm kind of on the fence on this one.

If you are right, then the Atlas is the only mech in the game that basically only has 1 role, and therefore only a few different options when it comes to weaponry. Every other mech can be outfitted as a brawler, sniper, lrm boat, etc. Except for the Atlas?

The thing is, matches can be won even without a single atlas on the team, or even a single assault mech. You just have to adjust your tactics accordingly. Especially now that there is no weight balance. The heaviest team has a significant advantage, but it doesn't always win.

In my opinion, an Atlas LRM boat isn't nearly as annoying as a lance of heavy mechs refusing to go first, or even join the fight when a medium or heavy mech is leading the charge. There are so many Puggers who are happy to watch their teammates cross the ridge, while hanging back and waiting for easier kills. Those guys are a much bigger problem than Atlas pilots who refuse to be cannon fodder.

I suppose it could be interpreted that I am saying that the Atlas has only one role, but that way I see it it is an additional role to whatever other role you are performing. You can have a ranged build and still be a damage soak - people are still more likely to shoot the Atlas 300m away than the Hunchback 150m to their left.

That a game can be won without Atlai is true, but not really what I'm getting at here. It's when Atlai are involved and could make life a lot easier for everyone on their team by taking a few hits, but decide not to in favour of letting the Dragons get cored first. If the team never has a tank mech in the first place, then the issue doesn't arise because, well, matchmaker.

The heavies (and everyone else) hanging back and waiting for kills is in my eyes essentially the same problem, albeit with slightly less ability to take a hit. Everybody's kind of too cowardly - especially without team voice comms to co-ordinate an assault. Everyone just waits for someone else to make the first move. I just feel it's more noticeable with Atlai that are completely untouched by the time half your team has been wiped out.

Edit:

Scryed, on 13 March 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

LETS DO THIS!

Edited by Onmyoudo, 13 March 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Alistair Winter, on 13 March 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

I think your strategy is too shallow. Let's say you're playing Caustic on Conquest, one team has Sigma, Epsilon and Theta, and they were first to get inside the caldera. The other team has Gamma, Kappa and they're on the other side of the ridge.

If neither team crosses the ridge to engage, the defending team (with three bases) win. If the attacking team (with two bases) moves around the caldera, they will have the lower position and so they'll have less cover to hide behind. The defending team can hide their legs behind the ridge, while the attacking team trying to flank them will be completely exposed, unless they take the long way around (e.g. 3-line) and lose a lot of points doing so.

This is why the caldera is so hot, to provide some balance between attacking and defending team. So if you're in the caldera, you have the advantage of cover, but you're more prone to overheating.

If the team has good communication and a skilled scout, they should have their scout telling the rest of their team where to cross the ridge, giving one team the benefit of attacking the other team's weakest spot. In that case, crossing the ridge isn't a bad thing, because you do more damage while the opposing team tries to adjust their positions.

I think you can pretty much always use the sides of the ridge to get to the other side. There are many buildings and a lot of cover there.