47 replies to this topic

[Zelus]

What are everyone's thoughts on a carrying Gauss Rifle on a Dragon?
This is excluding the Flame; that's a separate discussion.

So far, I've found it necessary, though it causes a glaring vulnerability.

The AC/10, just doesn't have the penetration.
Maybe its just my perception, but I get a lot more kills with a Gauss on that arm.
With the way a Dragon is dependent on striking quickly, sustained fire from the AC/10, let alone the Ultra/5, just isn't possible. Standing around to drop more than one shot in is asking for a kick in the (nearly unmissable) center torso.

However I've occassionally found myself going up against "that guy". The one who see that I have a Gauss, and just barely takes the armor off the arm.

At that point, the Gauss Rifle goes critical, and I'm dead. That's no guarding against this.
If I could just CASE the arm (I know, against Table-Top rules) the whole mech would be a lot more viable.

Is anyone else running Gauss Dragons? Or have you given up, and stuck with AC/10s or Ultra/5s?

[Toong]

In my opinion, the gauss is a bad choice. The dragon's wide body makes aiming a lot more difficult than other ballistic arm 'mechs; coupled with the dragon's speed, it becomes very difficult to handle. Also, dragons work best in the thick of things, typically within 300 meters, which is not the playground of the gauss rifle.

I personally prefer the LB-10, for its reduced weight and space, and good damage at close range. The LB also gives a dragon good light hunting ability.

-edit-
Try going for a sustained damage build. With a high top speed and good maneuvering, a dragon can absorb a lot of damage before failing. Back before I mysteriously started sucking with the dragon, I was getting 2-3 kills a match, and I was staying in the fight instead of doing hit-and-run.

Edited by Toong, 19 January 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[Serapth]

With Flame and I believe 1C, I run 4xLL. This is a wonderful combination.

I'm not huge on ballistics in this game, weight sucks and most importantly, delay is freaking killer.

[Zelus]

I haven't been able to like the LB 10-X. Its penetration is even worse than the Ultra-5. It just doesn't have the ability to make that kill-shot like the other ballistics. Remember, in this game, engine-critical-death isn't implemented, and the LB 10-X is actually worse at killing critical components anyway.

Catching a light mech with a gauss slug always makes me smile. Usually because they come flying apart.

Edited by Zelus, 19 January 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[Serapth]

Zelus, on 19 January 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

I haven't been able to like the LB 10-X. Its penetration is even worse than the Ultra-5. It just doesn't have the ability to make that kill-shot like the other ballistics. Remember, in this game, engine-critical-death isn't implemented, and the LB 10-X is actually worse at killing critical components anyway.

Catching a light mech with a gauss slug always makes me smile. Usually because they come flying apart.

I like LBX only for clipping ravens. Considering how damned many Ravens are running around...

[Valkaryie]

Zelus, on 19 January 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

I haven't been able to like the LB 10-X. Its penetration is even worse than the Ultra-5. It just doesn't have the ability to make that kill-shot like the other ballistics. Remember, in this game, engine-critical-death isn't implemented, and the LB 10-X is actually worse at killing critical components anyway.

Catching a light mech with a gauss slug always makes me smile. Usually because they come flying apart.

LBX is now viable with the light lag patch fix i run twin lbx10s and 3 ml on my catpraph usually get 2-3 kills a match so if you think lbx is not your thing your not a brawler u hit you move always gotta keep going forward. If your gonna run away first time you get shot at lbx is not your weapon stick to run and snipe but if you want a mech that goes toe to toe with any mech 1v1 lbx all the way

[Spinning Burr]

I am a longtime Dragon pilot and love Dragons, love gauss, and love gauss on Dragons. Match your weapons for range and playstyle. For example a mobile sniper Dragon with ERPPC on left arm and gauss on right arm is very effective with heat and range matched weapons and with 50% effectiveness if your right arm gets shot off. If you want to mix it up and also run and gun instead of just hang back to snipe, switch the ERPPC for an ER large laser in left arm for more accurate aiming on the move.

The AC10 is a very effective gun for midrange play rather than distance sniping. Complement it with 2 large lasers in left arm. Again you match the effectiveness and range of your weapons, in this case all weapons designed for 450 meters and if you lose your right arm, you have over 50% effective firepower in your other arm.

Edited by Spinning Burr, 19 January 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Depends how you play.
I like to be pretty close in my Dragons, so a Gauss is a pretty bad idea.
Explosions aside, having any single-projectile weapon on one of the dragon's super-wide arms in a pt blank engagement just doesn't work with convergence issues.

I run an LB-10 on the arm of my 1N and nothing on the R arm of my 1C.

If you're moving fast (95-104kph in my dragons) and/or facing light mechs the spread of the LB-10 also makes for a bit of leeway in taking shots, sure a straight on hit won't be as good, but would have been a near miss still does something appreciable. It also means I don't have to explicitly aim for holes in armor, I can aim in the general direction and catch it at least a little.

My 1N loadout is 2x SRM4, 2x ML, 1x LB10, XL350. Low heat, lots of shotgun power, and 2 ML is all I need most times for pinpoint damage.

[Adridos]

I'm running a gauss Dragon build from the forums and I'm really happy with how it works.

I thought about some tweaks regarding the said gauss, but came to the ultmate conslusion, that whatever I put in there instead will weaken my ballistic damage in the long term. Maybe I'm just lucky, but getting gauss taken out happens really just occasionally (like 1 in 40 matches), but even then the Dragon has enough firepower to hold it up.

It depends a lot on the variant you're using, though.
For 1C, it is the go to choice if you want to use that ballistic slot (as opposed to 4xLL).
For 1N/Fang... I'm not sure, haven't tried them yet.
For Flame... Don't have it personally, but it seems like a solid choice.
For 5N, it is probably for the better to use the other ballistic slots, since the whole mech is based on them and change it for some mix you come up with. Definitely the Dragon you'e least likely to profit from a gauss.

[Spinning Burr]

Don't forget that the 1N and 5N are designed for multiple guns in right arm, so think about combinations:
UAC5/AC2, UAC5/AC5, UAC2x3, UC5/AC2/AC2, and AC5/AC2/AC2, and AC5/AC5/AC2 are all possible and give a different flavor to auto/semi auto chain fire vs sniper slug linked fire modes. Try to fit at least a single large laser on the other arm to match and augment these loadouts.

Lately, my preferred mobile sniper Dragon has gone from gauss/ERPPC to AC2x3/ERPPC. Why? Well gauss now explodes like,a glass cannon as you mentioned. Also PPC and ER PPC speeds have been adjusted to match AC2 projectile speed which is the fastest ballistic in the game. Gauss round is currently slower than AC2 or PPC as of current patch. Furthermore, the distance on AC2 (720m) better matches the distance on ERPPC (810m). Finally, you can switch your AC2 semi auto sniper into a full auto machine gun if you need to brawl. The ER large laser at 675m is a great alternative for ERPPC for the AC2 gun and the gauss (660m).

The takeaway lesson is to match the capability and range of your Dragon arms to double your effectiveness at desired range and still have viable effectiveness if you lose your right arm.

[Mel Mad Dog Winters]

Toong, on 19 January 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

In my opinion, the gauss is a bad choice. The dragon's wide body makes aiming a lot more difficult than other ballistic arm 'mechs; coupled with the dragon's speed, it becomes very difficult to handle. Also, dragons work best in the thick of things, typically within 300 meters, which is not the playground of the gauss rifle.

I personally prefer the LB-10, for its reduced weight and space, and good damage at close range. The LB also gives a dragon good light hunting ability.

-edit-
Try going for a sustained damage build. With a high top speed and good maneuvering, a dragon can absorb a lot of damage before failing. Back before I mysteriously started sucking with the dragon, I was getting 2-3 kills a match, and I was staying in the fight instead of doing hit-and-run.

I'd have to agree with most of this. At one point my Dragon build started becoming less successful but still works fairly well.

Serapth, on 19 January 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

With Flame and I believe 1C, I run 4xLL. This is a wonderful combination.

I'm not huge on ballistics in this game, weight sucks and most importantly, delay is freaking killer.

That sounds very nice. My current 1C build is very similar:

2x large lasers (LA)
2x medium lasers (left torso)
1x streak SRM rack with a single ton of ammo
17 double heat sinks
max armor
XL 360 (max base speed of 97 kmph [106.9 with speed tweak])

The streak rack is a leftover from the pre-ECM days, that still gets use because with only one, people tend to not notice it and when counter ECM hits from a teammate it makes it easier to run anti-scout/harasser assistance. With only a single rack, it's not a big deal if it gets shut down by ECM being only 2.5 tons of my total build.

Prior to the rise of the ECM Raven, this build was death to scout/harasser mechs. I was experienced with chasing down fast lights from playing Jenners a lot. I switched up to Centurions and Dragons because I got tired of people complaining that I wasn't easy to kill in a Jenner. Once I made the switch, my damage, my kills, and my survival rate all went up and I started killing Jenners and other lights like they were lined up to be slaughtered. My one streak rack could provide pretty much the same cockpit rock and psychological deterent as their one or more racks. I'd get in their six with my speed and just tear them apart with the arm mounted large lasers. Those days are currently gone (ECM/streak Ravens just tear me to pieces), but they may return. Who knows...

It situations like these, maybe a build with an LBX-10 is worth considering? I don't know. Maybe...

My alpha is weak, but with my current loadout and 17 double heat sinks, I can almost continuously fire everything. Not quite, but... With everything going it will overheat, but I can do at least three alphas in a row in quick succession before I have to stop, and then it cools off quickly.

With an XL engine, I can get into flanking positions and hit enemies in their sides pretty easily.
However, that same XL makes the mech less of a brawler and being the first over the hill is never a good idea in this mech. Much more fragile than with a standard, of course...

Anyhow, in a good game where I'm not getting swarmed by ECM streak Ravens, where I can continuously support a teammate firing line by firing from the side and weaving in and out—a game where I can just keep the shots coming—I can rack up a lot of damage. Not as much as some people with tripple Ultra AC5 or multiple PPC/guass sniping builds, but easily 300-400 damage. Sometimes it hits for 800 - 900 by the end of a match...
The shots just keep coming and ammo is never a concern.

I respect what ballistic weapons can do in MWO, but they seem suited for slower Dragons and other bigger and/or slower mechs. I have one on my Centurion 9-D because I pretty much have to unless I want to be stuck with just using its torso hardpoints.

With practice, lasers can become very good weapons for fast strafing/skirmisher mechs, I think. True, even with practice, some of the laser damage will spead into other target areas, or miss, but it's also easy to correct mid-shot and get at least some of the damage exactly where you want it when you otherwise would have missed that particular spot. For fast moving mechs that will stand a high chance of missing altogether with all-or-nothing shot, it seems like a reasonable trade off.

So, yeah, I'm not in favour of a gauss on a Dragon. I'd certainly give it a vote on a mech built to be a long-range sniper, though.

[Mel Mad Dog Winters]

I just read some of the other builds mentioned in this thread since I started my post about my 1C energy build. Some of the balistic ones sound very interesting and sound like they could be very effective. Most of what I said about lasers in my last post is related to what works for me in that particular build, which is also dependent on how I use it.

[BerryChunks]

Of course the AC/10 doesn't have the penetration. Armor is double strength.

AC/10 was built around armor values being HALF of what they are now.

I had another thread around here somewhere about it. Basically, single group weapons were trashed by double armor. Thats why stock variants are usually a joke.

Edited by BerryChunks, 20 January 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[BerryChunks]

arkanis, on 20 January 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

[Deleted]

Im glad you cant disagree with any legitimate argument.

Edited by Taizan, 20 January 2013 - 06:56 PM.
Quote cleanup

[Taizan]

Please keep the discussion productive, friendly and on topic.

[Pr8Dator]

I use a gauss + 4ML + SRM6 on my Flame... it seems like gauss is the best thing to put on a dragon... ever.

[Abulafia]

For the 1C, I like to run 2xPPC instead of the gauss for sniping, plus 2xLL for general use. It runs hotter than the gauss build, but the heat is still pretty manageable and the PPCs pack an even bigger punch than the gauss. Presumably you could do that on Flame, too.

[Pr8Dator]

Zelus, on 19 January 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

I haven't been able to like the LB 10-X. Its penetration is even worse than the Ultra-5. It just doesn't have the ability to make that kill-shot like the other ballistics. Remember, in this game, engine-critical-death isn't implemented, and the LB 10-X is actually worse at killing critical components anyway.

Catching a light mech with a gauss slug always makes me smile. Usually because they come flying apart.

LBX used singly or even as a pair sucks. Thats a foregone conclusion so no need to talk about it anymore. The only time LBX felt useful and scary is when used in THREEs on a Ilya Muromets. Thats the only time I use LBX.

[arkanis]

BerryChunks, on 20 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Im glad you cant disagree with any legitimate argument.

Oh, here is your legitimate argument, a nutcase like you goes on saturday on a team killing rampage and then tríes to post as if nothing happened on sunday. Serial killer attitude?

Edited by arkanis, 20 January 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Pr8Dator, on 20 January 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

I use a gauss + 4ML + SRM6 on my Flame... it seems like gauss is the best thing to put on a dragon... ever.

Someone used a similar loadout on me last match.
Yeah, he got me through the rear armor since I didn't see him coming.
Then someone blew his gauss off and he was pretty much instantly dead.