8 replies to this topic

[focuspark]

Even though I feel ECM is broken as is, there's the possibility that tue devs like ECM the way it is. In that case C3 console should be the answer. By using the C3 pilots should be able to see enemy mechs on the battlefield as if ECM was not present unless the console is within the 180m disrupt radius.

The why is that C3 allows the use to satellite intelligence and the satellites are very out of the range of the ECM.

Edited by focuspark, 21 January 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

C3 is a networking system. Not EECM, or a more powerful sensor system like BAP. The solution is to fix what is broken, not change every other piece of equipment to suite the one broken item.

[Tsunamisan]

i agree with dirus. Its the ECM that needs fixing not the C3. Been discussing it with clan and there are 2 types of ECM Guardian and Angel ECM. As i understand it Guardian right now is not doing what it should be and instead is combining attributes from both suites

[General Taskeen]

Equipment needs to be balanced in this game to add extra balanced features, and not over do it like ECM. It completely negates stock builds. Specific equipment shouldn't necessarily be the end all-be all of what a team needs.

[Strum Wealh]

focuspark, on 21 January 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Even though I feel ECM is broken as is, there's the possibility that tue devs like ECM the way it is. In that case C3 console should be the answer. By using the C3 pilots should be able to see enemy mechs on the battlefield as if ECM was not present unless the console is within the 180m disrupt radius.

The why is that C3 allows the use to satellite intelligence and the satellites are very out of the range of the ECM.

Actually, it's rather the opposite.

"As much a revolution in battlefield technology as one of combat philosophy for its creators in the Draconis Combine, the system is essentially an elaborate tight-beam communications suite, designed to link the sensors and targeting systems of up to a full lance of friendly units in a single, closed network." (TechManual, pg. 209)

"Friendly units with systems outside the network cannot simply “tap in” at will." (TechManual, pg. 209)

"Further, the network signals and data streams are susceptible to jamming by enemy ECMs. Worst of all, the hierarchical nature of the system means that the loss of the master computer to destruction or ECM interference crashes the entire network, leaving its surviving units to fend for themselves." (TechManual, pg. 209)

The C3 Master Computer can access up to 4 remote sensors (which do not themselves operate as part of the C3 network). (Tactical Operations, pgs. 224 and 375)
The C3 Master Computer (but not the C3 Slave Unit) completely duplicates the functionality of TAG. (Total Warfare, pg. 131)

C3 is actually a closed system, is highly susceptible to ECM, and does not use satellites at all.
What actually uses the satellite system in any way close to what is suggested in the OP are the Command Console and (at least four tons of) Communications Equipment, not the C3 system.
In fact, the systems would seem to be mutually-exclusive, as any unit equipped with a Satellite Uplink "may not spot for indirect LRM fire or artillery, launch such attacks using another unit as a spotter, or function as part of a C3 Network."

[Critical Fumble]

Like Strum said, ECM is actually supposed to defeat C3, not the other way around.

The TT rules had LRMs function reasonably well, many mechs carried them as a secondary weapon to either harass or keep the enemy from ignoring them. Other mechs used them en mass as light artillery, and their strength could be improved by using Artemis, TAG, NARC, or C3 in a lance. ECM was used in a lance to defend against the LRM buffs, not the LRMs themselves.

Like Dirus said, the things in the game need to be balanced by their own right, not by exceptions created by other pieces of gear.

Edited by Critical Fumble, 21 January 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[CptBilsn]

focuspark, on 21 January 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Even though I feel ECM is broken as is, there's the possibility that tue devs like ECM the way it is. In that case C3 console should be the answer. By using the C3 pilots should be able to see enemy mechs on the battlefield as if ECM was not present unless the console is within the 180m disrupt radius.

The why is that C3 allows the use to satellite intelligence and the satellites are very out of the range of the ECM.

As current ECM stands I feel that what it needs is some kind of close-range countering. From long range ECM can be effectively countered by TAG, but up close there is nothing you can do, except being ECM capable too and switch to counter mode.

I think that good solution would be if NARC beacon broke ECM cover - but only for close range, say 90-100 m and only for single unit that is NARCed . I am aware that Guardian ECM is specifically told to counter NARC but this function would be maintained, units outside ECM bubble would still not get target lock from NARC alone (thats what TAG is for), but units in point blank range would get their target info (NARC is after all powerful transmitter so it kinda stands for reason that it can still function on very limited distance even if it is jammed).

This way, we would get some use for currently under-performing NARC beacon, get some solution for point blank knife fights with groups of ECM Ravens (yes Commandos too) and there would not be need to add another new piece of equipment.

And just a side note, those ECM scout builds would not be nerfed so much, it would only add a way to counter them where there is none at the moment. Right now as a light ECM mech pilot, you just need to fire up ECM, get to point blank range and run around your target which can't get a lock on you. But with ECM-breaking NARC, If your ECM scout get NARCed your target would have a way to target you again, which would force you to disengage and wait for NARC to wear out - it would just add something you need to watch for as a pilot and some additional layer of tactics.

[Captain Teft]

I still maintain that ECM should go both ways - if you are a light mech running ECM, *all* targetting should be disrupted, not just the targetting of your enemies. So friendlies in the field will have trouble getting locks, too. Also, ECM ravens running streaks are annoying.

[focuspark]

I just read somewhere (can't find it now) that C3 allowed satalite uplink and mech warriors could use the satallite to view the battlefield, which effectively negated ECM. Of course the connection to the satallite was blocked when the C3 was within ECM's 180m radius.