27 replies to this topic

[Aesthir]

[Edit] Thank you to everyone who replied, especially those who replied constructively. With the latest patch, it seems that whatever bug caused me to get an error message when I tried to buy mechs with C-bills has been fixed, thus showing my belief that mechs cost both MC AND C-bills to purchase to be false, thus rendering this forum post entirely moot. I was under the impression that one had to purchase new mechs with MC and then use C-bills to customize it, which is why I have some 70M C-bills and no mechs.

So if I have one suggestion, mayhaps whomever is in charge of the Mechlab UI could change the buttons from "Buy MC" and "Buy CB" to "Purchase Mech with MC" and "Purchase Mech with CB" to avoid people from making the same mistakes and making similar a**es of themselves?

Edited by Aesthir, 05 February 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[shadevarr]

I had 3 catapults and an atlas before I bought any MC, what game are you playing where you have to pay to customize?

[focuspark]

I bought 4 CPLT and a Dragon for < $50. Don't know what you're on about, but that's not bad. It's at least 3 months of fun for me, and I come from EVE Online (you know, the P2P MMO that's not shrinking) where it's US$20/month.

[sycocys]

I don't understand what your problem is here focus. You apparently don't find the mech pricing out of whack, but you do?

The hero mechs I can understand to a point, but it's really a good incentive to get here and there purchases from players that have a permanent effect versus a monthly.

As it's been stated hundreds of times this game isn't being built upon what recently has become a traditional production cycle, it hasn't been in private production for 4-5 years, and is in my opinion more of an actual beta product than has been released to players in probably 15 years. Whether you agree with it or not, it is simply how the cycle of this game has and will proceed into the future.

I really don't understand at all where you are coming from on how new/free players can't customize their mechs or are being somehow out-matched by monetary input. Having a hero isn't a pay to win option, it's a variant with a target on it's back that up to this point really isn't any better or worse than any other variant already in play. I'd really like to hear more about how you came to this conclusion though, because from my perspective it really couldn't be much farther from the actual state of the game.

[Stringburka]

I didn't understand this as a YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! but rather as a reflection on how the game should be designed in general. I agree with the OP, and also thing that PGI is doing quite a decent job at exactly what the OP's saying.

Edited by Stringburka, 31 January 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[focuspark]

I don't think the pricing is all that bad. That's all. Mechs aren't really that expensive, they last forever... and if you purchase a hero mech you get free c-bills ever match. Compare that to a game like WoW or EVE where you pay a monthly fee for the right to logon and it's not a bad deal IMO.

[IceSerpent]

Wait, that wall of text was is basically about free stuff being "too expensive"? Seriously?

[Praeses]

If he/she is right, then mwo will not last long.

From one point of view it would be sad if that happen but from the other point of view it would be really funny that just because everyone went pitch fork crazy against most of the "whining" people and didn't listen the game died.

I found that the solution is not to play until they make some changes (I for one I'm waiting on a new map), if the game dies well it dies, if the game improves it will be fun to play.

the prices are still a bit odd, you can buy full new games (pretty good ones too) with some of the mc packages they sell

**: by the way, EVE online have (or at least had) the option to pay the subscription with in-game currency

[Adridos]

Praeses, on 31 January 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

**: by the way, EVE online have (or at least had) the option to pay the subscription with in-game currency

You must spend at least money for one month, because you can't do it in the trial time. And the item for it is only bought. If someone wants more ISK, he can buy the subscription and then sell it to someone for ISK, that's how EVE system works.

Aesthir, on 31 January 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

In the end, that's the most important part. Everyone gets the same experience. Getting hammered over and over by players with bottomless wallets who can just buy their way into the game isn't fun. Right now, that's literally all that the free players can do. They can't even customize their own mech, which is three-quarters of what Mechwarrior is all about!

How much time did you spent with the game? 3 seconds? Or is this a troll acount?

No, really... anyone can customise his mechs, so your thread falls flat as a troll attempt.

[blinkin]

Adridos, on 31 January 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

How much time did you spent with the game? 3 seconds? Or is this a troll acount?

No, really... anyone can customise his mechs, so your thread falls flat as a troll attempt.

yay troll accusations have already started.

i don't agree entirely with the thread but it is much more well thought out than 99.99999% of threads posted in these forums.

new players generally do not start out being able to play the whole game. by that i mean that there is no option to make changes to the trial mechs (the mech lab is a very important portion of this game), and like the OP said trial mechs are laughable when pitted against most custom mechs.

i think we need to do a lot more to encourage new players. i want more meat on the field. and maybe some of the new players will prove to have tallent, giving me a decent enjoyable fight. regardless of skill level new players will mean more variation in tactics. which adds replayability to the game.

[Adridos]

blinkin, on 01 February 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

yay troll accusations have already started.

i don't agree entirely with the thread but it is much more well thought out than 99.99999% of threads posted in these forums.

It's one things when you make a thought-out thread. But a thread based on some weird experience he had where F2P players could never modify their mechs is hardly thought-out, considering how false it is.

[blinkin]

Adridos, on 01 February 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

It's one things when you make a thought-out thread. But a thread based on some weird experience he had where F2P players could never modify their mechs is hardly thought-out, considering how false it is.

free to players do have to wait and suffer through several matches before they can buy their own mech. that is several matches of playing in horribly designed heat inefficient trial mechs. this becomes more true as the player wants larger mechs. now what about equipment to actually modify the base mech? an ERPPC costs 600,000 cbills. if i am having a good day then i can make that much money in 3 rounds. 3 rounds of really good play for 1 weapon.

this means the first several matches when the player is still learning the game, they will be consistently abused by the majority of players around them who already have decent mechs.

i think it is bad game design to just tell players that they have to lose a few times before they get to play the whole game.

[Theobald Hauser]

Yeah because in other games newbies aren't stampeded to paste in their first rounds.

At least here they win a BIG cash bonus doing so.

I do agree that an OP whining about free players unable to customize mechs has clearly not played the game enough to make points. Come on...
Aesthir, you can. BUY A MECH. WITH C-BILLS.
You took more time writing this than playing the game.

[Adridos]

blinkin, on 01 February 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

free to players do have to wait and suffer through several matches before they can buy their own mech. that is several matches of playing in horribly designed heat inefficient trial mechs. this becomes more true as the player wants larger mechs. now what about equipment to actually modify the base mech? an ERPPC costs 600,000 cbills. if i am having a good day then i can make that much money in 3 rounds. 3 rounds of really good play for 1 weapon.

this means the first several matches when the player is still learning the game, they will be consistently abused by the majority of players around them who already have decent mechs.

i think it is bad game design to just tell players that they have to lose a few times before they get to play the whole game.

You're forgetting the new cadet bonus system. My brother joined the game and had his fully kitted-out 4SP in 5 matches.

Compared to almost every F2P game out there, it's really a merciful grind. And don't remind me, I've been through it afew times in closed beta and also had to grind at the start of OB.

[Runenstahl]

Adridos, on 01 February 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

You're forgetting the new cadet bonus system. My brother joined the game and had his fully kitted-out 4SP in 5 matches.

Compared to almost every F2P game out there, it's really a merciful grind. And don't remind me, I've been through it afew times in closed beta and also had to grind at the start of OB.

Exactly. I've played world of tanks for a while... trying to get to a top tier tank there takes MONTHS of grinding. MWO let's you try out a couple of mechs for free (though not exactly very powerful ones). You get your first medium mech VERY quickly (due to cadet bonus) and getting your own atlas can be achieved in a moderate amount of time (playing only an hour a day you should be able to grind 500.000 C-Bills per day so it will take you about a month to get from zero to an atlas and some spare money to fiddle around with it).

And whatever you can buy so far with MC is different, but NOT better then what you can get through free play.

Actually I think MWO is among the BEST free to play models. Most other games I know either give paying players some advantage or seriously limit the content for non-playing members. MWO does it the right way.

[Stringburka]

As a player that payed for basic Founders and might pay sometime again for something really awesome, but won't pay for like, weapons and basic functionality, I think the c-bills costs are perfect where they are.

It took me about a day and a half to get my fully equipped Raven 4x done, about 9 millions that is. That amount of work makes me feel like it's an investment. It makes it a real choice whether to sell excess equipment or save it if I want to use it again. If I could get that raven with like an hour and a half of play, it wouldn't matter as much. If it took a week, I might not care to play at all.

While certain weapons could be a little cheaper or a little more expensive, and XL engines could be about 10% cheaper than they are, in general I feel that the prices are mostly where they should be for it to feel like your working towards something yet at the same time allowing you to see progress.

[Praeses]

Stringburka, on 01 February 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

As a player that payed for basic Founders and might pay sometime again for something really awesome, but won't pay for like, weapons and basic functionality, I think the c-bills costs are perfect where they are.

It took me about a day and a half to get my fully equipped Raven 4x done, about 9 millions that is. That amount of work makes me feel like it's an investment. It makes it a real choice whether to sell excess equipment or save it if I want to use it again. If I could get that raven with like an hour and a half of play, it wouldn't matter as much. If it took a week, I might not care to play at all.

While certain weapons could be a little cheaper or a little more expensive, and XL engines could be about 10% cheaper than they are, in general I feel that the prices are mostly where they should be for it to feel like your working towards something yet at the same time allowing you to see progress.

I once played more than a week almost 4-5 hours a day and couldn't get more than a few millions (<5), how can you raise 9M in a day and a half is something I can't understand.

I'm not discussing if the prices are right or wrong (I would loose that discussion even with all the right arguments) I just don't understand how people can get so much Cbills (without using any boost that is)

[Antarius]

OP-bashing...nice...

@OP: You missed some points of the game, you can switch between trial(the 4 standart unchangeable Mechs, which rotate all week i guess) and your 4, at the start empty, "Mechbays", with a little button in your "Mechlab". There you can purchase up to four Mechs with C-bills (ingame earned currency) or M-bills?, the bought currency. At start you get a hugh C-bill earning bonus (like statet before the Cardet-bonus) which gives you over about 25 Matches a total bonus of ca. 8.000.000 C-bills.


At some points i aggree with you, some prices are a bit off, to equip a Mech with 2-3moduls which moderate benefits, you pay a furtune. I know, its the last polish of your Mech, but therefore, if i change it, the money is lost, its a bit harsh. And that you have to pay a nice sum each time you build a "upgrade" in a Mech or remove it . (sometime you wanna test it, and after some matches you belive it was better before) But all in all its ok.

[Darwins Dog]

OP: The TF2 comparison isn't really valid. You're comparing a game that was sold as a retail game for four years before adopting the free model to one that hasn't even been around for a year and still carries the beta label. They're in two different situations. Not to mention that Valve is a billion dollar company, and PGI is struggling to fill some key positions. Also, in that game you either pay real money for a new weapon, or you randomly find it. You can't earn in-game money and choose the weapon that you want to buy.

And where are you getting that PGI sees the free players as leeches? I have never gotten that impression at all. In fact they seem to value the input of every player, not just the paying ones.

And enough of the P2W stuff. No one has bought any advantage that you can't get yourself.

[sycocys]

Praeses, on 01 February 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

I once played more than a week almost 4-5 hours a day and couldn't get more than a few millions (<5), how can you raise 9M in a day and a half is something I can't understand.

I'm not discussing if the prices are right or wrong (I would loose that discussion even with all the right arguments) I just don't understand how people can get so much Cbills (without using any boost that is)

With the 1 free day of premium time I posted nearly 10 million in 2 - 4 hour sessions, was before the new economy system, but I'd be willing to bet premium time + a mech designed to rip apart/kill versus a more scout or pure role oriented one you'd not be too far off and behind that.

Now without premium time and a new work schedule that limits me to 2-3 hours a day during the week at the most, I'm still managing to gain about 2.5 million a day while working on sub par builds to get skills while saving for new mechs. Working as a team whether in pug or on a pre makes a HUGE difference as well as selecting the better mode for your particular mech and chosen role.