19 replies to this topic

[Pz_DC]

Hi all. Atm Im trying all Dragons and for me 5n is the weakest one. Why? Ill explain. 2 lasers cant be large - too much heat and too heavy - better set 2 med and some heat sinks. Wrong? maybe, IF you can leave with 1 LL. Missle - LRM only for "mark" enemy as "damaged" to get point for the kill - too small for LRM15|20 while 5|10 cant hit welll enoth to cout as "carry" weapon. SRM can be ok, but 1 pack is not enoth to do critical damage. Anyway - even if Im wrong I hope all here agree that missles is nothing more then support on Dragon?... Now main - ballistic. 3 slots are ok, but what else You can use except gauss and ac10 (lbx10)? UAC5 is too weak alone - jummming all the time. 3 ac2 can be ok but then u cant use missles or 2 med lasers or 300 engine with it. (Btw - how did you manage to use xl engime?! it has only 8 slots while XL need 12!...) Without 300 engine dragon need gauss or smth rly good to feel himself ok - anyway it has weak armor and a bit (a bit!!!) slow on turning. There will me 100500 of players who will say "im using gauss+2med lasers+lrm|srm and its ok"(or so on). BUT ohter Dragons can do it better! Just think - other can do it better!! So what can I do with 5n!? What thing it can do better then 1c and 1n?! I dont know...

What do I suggest? Just add 1 more slot to right arm so it will be able to use ac20 and so on, so it will be single one (exept fang and flame) who can use it. This will "fix" 5n "useless". Or add ecm to it Single dragon with ecm! Sounds well...

Edited by MGA121285, 21 January 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[101011]

Actually, canonically speaking, you cannot add more slots to the arm, you would have to remove an actuator, which isn't happening. Personally, I run an ER Large Laser, SRM 6, and UAC/5 with STD 200 and max armor. But yeah, I really don't like the 5N either.

[Roughneck45]

They won't let it have an arm mounted AC20.

The only "unique" thing you can do with that variant is triple AC2's.

My advice, put in a guass, SRM6, 2 MLas, and the biggest engine you can fit after ammo. You shouldn't need any heatsinks other than what the engine comes with, as long as you have DHS and Endo.

[Pz_DC]

Roughneck45, on 21 January 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

My advice, put in a guass, SRM6, 2 MLas, and the biggest engine you can fit after ammo. You shouldn't need any heatsinks other than what the engine comes with, as long as you have DHS and Endo.

Hey come on Main problem is that this is most popular and single waluable config! 1c and 1n will fit for it better then 5n. 5n need some "uniqueness" - triple ac2 isnt ok.

P.S. I dont say 5n is weak, I say 5n is boring after 1c and 1n. Im already hate it, but forced to use it to unlock elite percs and so on.

Edited by MGA121285, 21 January 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

MGA121285, on 21 January 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Hi all. Atm Im trying all Dragons and for me 5n is the weakest one. Why? Ill explain. 2 lasers cant be large - too much heat and too heavy - better set 2 med and some heat sinks. Wrong? maybe, IF you can leave with 1 LL. Missle - LRM only for "mark" enemy as "damaged" to get point for the kill - too small for LRM15|20 while 5|10 cant hit welll enoth to cout as "carry" weapon. SRM can be ok, but 1 pack is not enoth to do critical damage. Anyway - even if Im wrong I hope all here agree that missles is nothing more then support on Dragon?... Now main - ballistic. 3 slots are ok, but what else You can use except gauss and ac10 (lbx10)? UAC5 is too weak alone - jummming all the time. 3 ac2 can be ok but then u cant use missles or 2 med lasers or 300 engine with it. (Btw - how did you manage to use xl engime?! it has only 8 slots while XL need 12!...) Without 300 engine dragon need gauss or smth rly good to feel himself ok - anyway it has weak armor and a bit (a bit!!!) slow on turning. There will me 100500 of players who will say "im using gauss+2med lasers+lrm|srm and its ok"(or so on). BUT ohter Dragons can do it better! Just think - other can do it better!! So what can I do with 5n!? What thing it can do better then 1c and 1n?! I dont know...

What do I suggest? Just add 1 more slot to right arm so it will be able to use ac20 and so on, so it will be single one (exept fang and flame) who can use it. This will "fix" 5n "useless". Or add ecm to it Single dragon with ecm! Sounds well...

I did well with this one using an AC10 (2 tons of ammo), 2xSRM4 (2 tons of ammo), and 2xML, 300 XL engine, and almost max armor. The rest of the tonnage was heatsinks (I think I also had endosteel, but I can't remember). You will have some flexibility to swap ammo and heatsinks around depending on your style.

BTW, the XL engines take up three spaces in each side torso and six in the center for a total of 12. This means that if you lose either side torso you are dead, but Dragons have such a big center torso that it rarely matters.

[Pz_DC]

Darwins Dog, on 21 January 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

I did well with this one using an AC10 (2 tons of ammo), 2xSRM4 (2 tons of ammo), and 2xML, 300 XL engine, and almost max armor. The rest of the tonnage was heatsinks (I think I also had endosteel, but I can't remember). You will have some flexibility to swap ammo and heatsinks around depending on your style.

BTW, the XL engines take up three spaces in each side torso and six in the center for a total of 12. This means that if you lose either side torso you are dead, but Dragons have such a big center torso that it rarely matters.

How did u manage to use 2 SRMs when there is only 1 missle slot on 5n?! 2)ac10 is 3rd config for this mech, and PLZ learn to read - 1n and|or 1c fit for it better then 5n! Stop this plz, cant reply to all "Im using ac10|gauss|lbx10" becouse read above!..

Edited by MGA121285, 21 January 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[Morang]

You don't need those 3 ballistic slots (3 AC/2 build is insane), but benefit is having two lasers in left arm and more than one ballistic in right. Two ballistics are enough, but DRG-1N with two ballistics have its two lasers in arm in torso, slaved to different reticles. And energy-heavy DRG-1C has 1 ballistic slot.

So unique DRG-5N builds possible are twin cannons (AC/2 or AC/5) plus twin arm-mounted lasers (MPLs or MLs). XL engine and DHS are mandatory.

Perhaps with upcoming MG buff extra ballistic slots will become useful for crit-seeking on parts with armor removed.

[Pz_DC]

Morang, on 21 January 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

You don't need those 3 ballistic slots (3 AC/2 build is insane), but benefit is having two lasers in left arm and more than one ballistic in right. Two ballistics are enough, but DRG-1N with two ballistics have its two lasers in arm in torso, slaved to different reticles. And energy-heavy DRG-1C has 1 ballistic slot.

So unique DRG-5N builds possible are twin cannons (AC/2 or AC/5) plus twin arm-mounted lasers (MPLs or MLs). XL engine and DHS are mandatory.

Perhaps with upcoming MG buff extra ballistic slots will become useful for crit-seeking on parts with armor removed.

Wery smart words BUT You can not mout dual ac5! And dual-ac2 deal not enoth dps to be better then single one ac5. Ac2 outfit ac5 only when used 3x, other way it will weight more and do less dps in cost of no jamming (and some range.. but who cares about range now?.. )

P.S, to be correct - i need to try Xl engine, but anyway slot problem will limit 5n use...

Edited by MGA121285, 21 January 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

MGA121285, on 21 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

How did u manage to use 2 SRMs when there is only 1 missle slot on 5n?! 2)ac10 is 3rd config for this mech, and PLZ learn to read - 1n and|or 1c fit for it better then 5n! Stop this plz, cant reply to all "Im using ac10|gauss|lbx10" becouse read above!..

You are right, I looked at the wrong thing in my mech lab. For that one I did one SRM6, and an extra heatsink. You can also use the tonnage for a faster engine.

I'm sorry to upset you, I'm just trying to help you get through the skills on a mech you don't like. It's almost identical to the 1n build (two fewer SRMs), so it should work fine. Just grind it out then sell it as soon as you fill elite skills.

[Morang]

MGA121285, on 21 January 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Wery smart words BUT You can not mout dual ac5! And dual-ac2 deal not enoth dps to be better then single one ac5. Ac2 outfit ac5 only when used 3x, other way it will weight more and do less dps in cost of no jamming (and some range.. but who cares about range now?.. )

P.S, to be correct - i need to try Xl engine, but anyway slot problem will limit 5n use...

Both in terms of DPS and inability to mount twins you're talking about Ultra AC/5 here (5 crits). Slot-wise, you absolutely can mount twin regular AC/5 (4 crits) in the arm of any mech, even if it has full set of actuators (and 8 free crits). Dragon can also mount Ultra-5 plus regular 5, because it has no right hand (and so 9 free slots).

Yes, Ultra outperforms regular AC/5 in DPS even in regular mode, but it's heavier and hotter, and so less compartible with energy weapons.

Dragon is well suited for XL with its little side torsos.

[Roughneck45]

MGA121285, on 21 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

How did u manage to use 2 SRMs when there is only 1 missle slot on 5n?! 2)ac10 is 3rd config for this mech, and PLZ learn to read - 1n and|or 1c fit for it better then 5n! Stop this plz, cant reply to all "Im using ac10|gauss|lbx10" becouse read above!..

Well with the criteria you have given us, literally the only thing you can do is triple AC2. You can try 2 if you want, but its basically impossible to beat a gauss rifle.

Dragons need speed, with speed you want burst fire. Gauss > AC2. Thats how I approach it.

The 5N and 1N(i think?) are just not very good variants. If you are going for unique, you have to try and use the ballistics on one, and the ct missile slots on the other, which is difficult because of the limited space on both chassis. The 1C is just infinitely better than both of them.

I just see it as a faster 1C with a bit less firepower.

Edited by Roughneck45, 21 January 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[Pz_DC]

Over, over and over again - PLEASE stop talking about Gauss|AC10(dualca5)|LBX10 variants. Both 1c and 1n fit better for it. Just comapre dragons to catapults and, I hope, you will understand what do I mean (for those who rly have realy hard time to analize - 4 catapults are different, they all are unique while 5n has nothing uniqie to use, only 3 ballistic slots that can be filled with ..what 3 weapons can be mounted there?... ac2? ac5? come on, rly triple ac5?.. it sounds like a bad joke...)

P.S. guys I cant belive that most of You can live with such problems with reading....

[Roughneck45]

MGA121285, on 21 January 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Over, over and over again - PLEASE stop talking about Gauss|AC10(dualca5)|LBX10 variants. Both 1c and 1n fit better for it. Just comapre dragons to catapults and, I hope, you will understand what do I mean (for those who rly have realy hard time to analize - 4 catapults are different, they all are unique while 5n has nothing uniqie to use, only 3 ballistic slots that can be filled with ..what 3 weapons can be mounted there?... ac2? ac5? come on, rly triple ac5?.. it sounds like a bad joke...)

P.S. guys I cant belive that most of You can live with such problems with reading....

Stop being so dense.

We have told you over and over again, THERE IS NOTHING ELSE YOU CAN DO! THE VARIANT IS GARBAGE! Triple AC2 is literally the ONLY thing you can fill those slots with, unless you take larger caliber and machine guns.

Sorry, just the truth.

We cant just pull a magical build out of our *** that no other variant can take and is comparable to the best builds dragons can have.

The 4 catapults are different enough from eachother for unique, effective builds. Dragons do not have that luxury.

Edited by Roughneck45, 21 January 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[Das Wudone]

some builds i made using the online mechlab.

melter crit: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...29833a3ece2f9ba
pure crit: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e57a8507db45428
dakka-dakka: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ee894763e2b2f50

i also dont like the 5N much cos most of its firepower is located on its arms....

[bonapartist1]

XL315, 2 UAC, 2ML, 1SRM6.

A good build which will go almost 95KPH with speedboost.

[Pz_DC]

Roughneck45, on 21 January 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Stop being so dense.

We have told you over and over again, THERE IS NOTHING ELSE YOU CAN DO! THE VARIANT IS GARBAGE! Triple AC2 is literally the ONLY thing you can fill those slots with, unless you take larger caliber and machine guns.

Sorry, just the truth.

We cant just pull a magical build out of our *** that no other variant can take and is comparable to the best builds dragons can have.

The 4 catapults are different enough from eachother for unique, effective builds. Dragons do not have that luxury.

Man You realy cant read... Im talking same thing - there is nothing we can do, and says that it is a problem!!! Come on! 5 times I say "1c and 1n can fit better for most devastating weapons we can use at Dragons" and some of You keep trashtalking instead tell me and, amybe, devs any ideas how to fix it. Different builds arent "Luxury", it is "must have" for mechwarrior game, only this makes it different from any other fps. All what I want here is to see any ideas how to change 5n to make it more competative with 1c and 1n. I told my idea - make it able to use ac20 or add ecm. You have no idea how to fix it? Then didnt reply. You arent agree with me? Then tell me how 5n can be better then 1c and 1n. That's all what I want to see in this "discussion".

Edited by MGA121285, 22 January 2013 - 11:50 AM.

[Das Wudone]

bonapartist1, on 22 January 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

XL315, 2 UAC, 2ML, 1SRM6.

A good build which will go almost 95KPH with speedboost.

u cannot equip 2 UAC5s on the 5n. it just wouldnt fit since a single UAC5 occupies 5 crits and the amt of crit slots u have on that right arm is only 9 (3 are taken up by the shoulder, upper and lower arm actuator). u can however do 1 UAC5 and 1 AC5.

the only thing the 5n can be or equally good than its other variants is the ability to mount a lot of weapons on the arms. 2 laser slots on the left arm work well against lights or when u want precise aiming... but the 1c, fang and flame also has this sadly. 3 ballistic slots on the right arm could give u a variety of combinations with the different ballistic weapons we have that other variants of the dragon cant do.

[Ryvucz]

5N - currently I have 2 medium lasers and 3 AC/2s, more of a harass and support role.

I did have it set up as a sniping mech at one point, one ER Large Laser and a Gauss Rifle. Worked pretty good until I wanted a harassing role with it.

[BirdToes]

All dragons are equal, but some dragons are more equal than others.

[Roughneck45]

MGA121285, on 22 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Man You realy cant read... Im talking same thing - there is nothing we can do, and says that it is a problem!!! Come on! 5 times I say "1c and 1n can fit better for most devastating weapons we can use at Dragons" and some of You keep trashtalking instead tell me and, amybe, devs any ideas how to fix it. Different builds arent "Luxury", it is "must have" for mechwarrior game, only this makes it different from any other fps. All what I want here is to see any ideas how to change 5n to make it more competative with 1c and 1n. I told my idea - make it able to use ac20 or add ecm. You have no idea how to fix it? Then didnt reply. You arent agree with me? Then tell me how 5n can be better then 1c and 1n. That's all what I want to see in this "discussion".

OHHHHHHHHHH

So you think the hardpoints or something else should be changed to make it more attractive?

I guess an AC20 would be fun, but im sure they are content with the 3 ballistic slots to allow the triple AC2 as something to make it unique from other variants.

I thought you were looking for builds.

Edited by Roughneck45, 22 January 2013 - 09:19 PM.