17 replies to this topic

[ELMS]

Wow... disappointing.

I got a massive thrill seeing Mechwarrior was once again in the making. Unfortunately, there are too many people on these forums who are so keen to gank each other, than to have a bit of immersive fun, that this remodelled half game might actually succeed.

In 2009, when PGI suggested a single player campaign, I was disappointed that they hadn't realised the potential of this to be an MMO. Unfortunately it looks like they've made the decision to pull plug on the single player half and tweak the Multi-player half into a F2P. Even if this is an attempt at a Mechwarrior Sim, it sounds like the Online part of the game is all there will be (similar to the cry2engine mod of Mechwarrior).

Initially I was prepared to get this game regardless, due to the potential in a Mechwarrior MMO (to all those who don't believe it would work, I STRONGLY disagree)*.

On finding out this is simply a half-game for PVPer competition, I have given up any hope at all that this will take off as a profitable game.

F2P it may be, but they already have the same idea on Steam (see War.Inc Battlezone), which although still operational, isn't something you want to spend much time playing.

Ok, Mechwarrior Online has a backstory which will progress on a day to day basis, but most people will only go on for the first week or two, leave again when it gets boring, and occasionally return when something of storyline significance occurs.

If any of the developers ever dredge the forums and come across this critique, please consider the following:

1) Payment sustainability is created in new players through immersion in storyline development, exploration, crafting and environmental interaction. (Make this something where people can explore more than just PVP)

2) Reliance on the player demographic to be something other than a gank-oriented organisation is a must to create a sustainable and ongoing player base (and therefore a secured source of income generation).

3) PGI and IGP would be able to expand from a moderate venture, into the big-leagues through only ONE major success, which an F2P MMO release would give you (see CCP and their player base in EVE Online).

4) The reasons people were so keen on the Battletech universe were the dynamic planetary and house ruled political geography, the interaction OUTSIDE of the Mechs, and the Mechs themselves.

5) By restricting players to randomized or even worse pre-concieved maps would become boring after a while, especially when missions are "mainly conquest based" yawn "with some deathmatches" snore. If this is what you're offering, why not just re-work the next COD MW release.

6) If you are having trouble trying to find ways to develop the open-world structure on a number of different worlds, I would recommend reviewing the structure of Eve-Incarna (with their DUST 512 release coming soon) and the December 20 2011 release of Star Wars TOR, which displays a system similar to what I believe would work here.

A combination of Eve Incarna, SWTOR and Mechwarrior would be the best solution to maintaining a persistent gamer base (in my view).

The current model which I and others (see other posts on the issue) have inferred from your short spiel is a disappointing look at a potentially great game.


I am looking forward to any Mechwarrior game, but I am especially looking forward to a good persistent and OPEN world to explore.

To all the other Fans of the genre keen to see the classic Mechwarrior gameplay mechanics developed into an Mechwarrior MMO, please post your support.

If you don't want this to occur, and you aren't a PGI/IGP employee, kindly shut the hell up, or step beneath my mech's descending foot.



Cheers,
Elms.

P.S.
Unless you are a dev, or forum garbo, please only post in support. Otherwise refer to my last sentance pre post-script. Also, after consideration, I feel obliged to mention that when I refer to this as being Massively Multiplayer Online (MMO) I actually mean MMORPG. Something where your character can interact through more than a PPC, and affect politics, trade and exploration without 20 tons of ferro-ceramic plating surrounding you.

Edited by ELMS, 05 November 2011 - 07:00 AM.

[Aethon]

I agree that a Battletech MMO, given the proper development and depth, would be absolutely incredible. I have been dreaming of one for years. There is so much one could do in a universe like that...but, before you resign yourself to disappointment, consider the following:

1. No one, aside from the developers, knows the depth or features of this game yet.
2. If this game does very well, it only makes good business sense to expand on it, not to mention the franchise.
3. Jordan Weisman, one of Battletech's creators, is heavily involved. I expect good things here.

[ELMS]

Aethon, on 05 November 2011 - 07:07 AM, said:

I agree that a Battletech MMO, given the proper development and depth, would be absolutely incredible. I have been dreaming of one for years. There is so much one could do in a universe like that...but, before you resign yourself to disappointment, consider the following:

1. No one, aside from the developers, knows the depth or features of this game yet.
2. If this game does very well, it only makes good business sense to expand on it, not to mention the franchise.
3. Jordan Weisman, one of Battletech's creators, is heavily involved. I expect good things here.

Yeah, all very true, and hopefully with all fingers, toes and ***** crossed, this will be nothing but a great game, with a persistent environment and storyline.

Just had to deal with my heart and mind seizing in a paroxysm of fear and loathing at the sight of the quote below:

"The matches themselves will support multiple teams and multiple four-person squads (“lances” in MechWarrior parlance). The primary focus will be Conquest mode, which will allow for more tactics and teamwork, but there will also be a variety of deathmatch modes available." (http://www.pcgamer.c...tical-mech-sim/)

Brings to mind the horrors of COD4 multiplayer in a Mechwarrior setting. I guess I'm just hoping for something more than a re-do of what's already been done.

[infinite xaer0]

There’s only one problem; MW is not an MMO, it's an action-sim. Even though some of the existing MW community has been fantasizing about a btech MMO, the vast majority of fans want something along the lines of what MW has offered in the past, which is what this game promises to deliver, albeit, minus the SP.

[Mercurial]

Oh sure, an MMO based on Battletech would be great! I'd love it! Persistent Pilots! captureable cities! A world economy! Giant, 40+ on 40+ Battlemech brawls!

It's just that would be expensive. And from the sound of the Dev blog, the term 'Mech sim' did not exactly set the publishing world on fire. In my humble opinion, Piranha is taking a risk here on something they love. This is pretty ambitious as is, and it's either going to drive revenue for Mechwarrior to return in a big way to the electronic game scene or fall flat. Much as I'd love it, I'd be just as happy getting 'this' right. It can only lead to bigger and better things in the future.

[VYCanis]

you know, it doesn't make your argument look particularly solid when you put a disclaimer within it saying that you aren't willing to discuss the matter with someone who disagrees.

Something you really need to consider above all else. Dev teams have things called budgets. Not everyone is a Blizzard or Valve with bottomless coffers to throw at whatever project they feel like or spend as much dev time as they please. Or have 300+ dev teams with the capital to throw at every outsourcing studio from Albuquerque to Timbuktu.

i think its just a little bit unrealistic to expect any studio to flat out kick start a full blown battletech MMO that still includes the mechwarrior combat when they aren't even able to secure funding for a traditional SP/MP game, and the license has been in a 10 year coma, and general public knowledge of the setting is still rather niche.

[Reod]

Sadly open world MW MMO would fail even in form you describe ELMS.Why?Did you really have look on MMO market?Its overgrowed with mmos that failed even with great franchises...Right now SWTOR have chance succes only becouse of SW franchise and hundrends of dollars invested not only in game but also in marketing...i doubt that piranha games have such budget...

Look at world of tanks - 5 millions of players with low budget... and you say that "deathmatch" type (rather teamdeathmatch with capture) dont have chance break through on market?

I strongly belive that game based on Battletech franchise with gameplay like World of thanks would do a lot for whole franchise...Why?Becouse young players dont know much about Battletech franchise ...if game like WOT will appeal to them we would have more games based on MW/Battletech...instead we have now only mods.. i hope that Mechwarrior online will change it.

Edited by Reod, 05 November 2011 - 09:13 AM.

[gregsolidus]

A full MMO is beyond the scope of what the developers are capable of,can't you tell?

[Phades]

I see this iteration of the game offering as a "testing the water" with a "proof of concept" without having to invest a ton of money into it.

Could they do more content wise and eventually grow the core game into something else, with it being marketed and distributed by one of the major players like vendevi or activision? Possibly.

We won't know anything until after they release this game for about a year i'd guess.

[Draco Argentum]

VYCanis, on 05 November 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

i think its just a little bit unrealistic to expect any studio to flat out kick start a full blown battletech MMO that still includes the mechwarrior combat when they aren't even able to secure funding for a traditional SP/MP game, and the license has been in a 10 year coma, and general public knowledge of the setting is still rather niche.

Here we note that WoW started off the back of an immensly popular RTS series. And it came from a design house that could sell a million copies of a dog **** in a box as long as it had Blizzard on it. Piranah are unknowns and the Battletech ip has been fallow too long. Since the last game kids have gone from finding 1+1=2 hard to reaching gaming age.

More importantly an MMO would be aweful. The no life crew dominates MMOs unless multiple immersion breaking mechanics are implemented. Either your mech can be destroyed when the town it was in is captured while you are logged out. Or there is some kind of magic protection that stops that. Either way is lame. You could go the WoW route where you can't capture anything, but does anyone actually want to play WoW with mechs?

[Threat Doc]

I have not read everything here, but ELMS has a point... I would love to see a persistent BattleTech universe. However, for the time being, I would be content to see -especially since the money is likely not available to do a full, persistent MMO- a properly done game of BattleTech in a simulator fashion. If these devs can put this game together where consideration of all the negative twitcher-game BS in previous MW iterations takes effect, and elimination of the same, is enacted, then I welcome the game.

ELMS, those of us who want the full experience of the BattleTech universe, every book, novel, and computer and console experience included, will have to wait until money, time, and opportunity are available, I'm afraid. So, do you think you could get past that obviously very strong desire and play in the community until that takes place?

[Vaneshi SnowCrash]

ELMS, on 05 November 2011 - 06:41 AM, said:

If you don't want this to occur, and you aren't a PGI/IGP employee, kindly shut the hell up, or step beneath my mech's descending foot.

I would of given you a sensible answer, you made some interesting points and had some assumptions made that I'd like to of discussed further. Things such as where you'd found information about core gameplay out from and the like. However, you are a cad sir, a bounder and a cad. Good day!

Ohh and Incarna? Otherwise known as the thing that killed two customers video cards (allegedly) ran poorly on anything other than some very specific configs, had zero gameplay plus made your avatar look rubbish is probably not PI, or indeed any other development house other than 'fearless' CCP, should attempt again. Yes my tears are tasty and I am a bittervet.

[Damocles]

lolpost

[Colaessus]

The original poster needs to reread this from their announcement post.

" By late fall 2009, our dreams of making a MechWarrior game, began slowly drifting away.
Through the end of 2009 and into 2010 we rallied numerous times, reducing scope and budget, re-pitching the concept as a LIVE only title, etc. etc. In the end, nothing stuck.
To be honest, 2008/09 were some of the hardest times this company has ever seen. We spent a lot of time, resources, money and energy on MechWarrior, and it wasn’t looking good.
Then, in the spring of 2010, we secured the Duke Nukem Forever contract. This was a huge achievement and a cornerstone in our development history. MechWarrior played a large role in helping us secure the deal. A few key hires filled out our incredibly talented multiplayer AAA team.
MechWarrior took a back seat, as we focused on a very challenging and time compressed project.
2010 ended, and we rolled into 2011 without much fanfare as Duke Nukem Forever entered the final phases of development.
In the winter months of 2011 we assessed the state of MechWarrior. We came to the realization that any further work on MechWarrior would come at great risk to PGI. If we planned to take on significant risk, we needed to control the IP. After several sessions of deliberation, we decided to plunge in head first. Russ approached Smith & Tinker with regards to licensing the MechWarrior rights and within a few weeks, we signed a deal.
Not long after signing, we quickly realized licensing the rights was one of the most important and future sighted decisions made by us in the last 12 years. Offers were coming in from all over the planet, especially to make or license a free-to-play MechWarrior game.
Because of the overwhelming interest, we decided to spend some time researching what a free-to-play (F2P) MechWarrior game would look like. We spent some design cycles adapting our previous concepts and quickly realized a synergy between F2P and the BattleTech universe. We worked hard through spring, negotiating, designing, and rejecting a few potential partners. As it turns out, we didn’t have to look very far.
During much of the past 12 months there was a local group that also had a large amount of interest in developing and publishing a MechWarrior title. Once Piranha had become the license holder they came over immediately and met with us. From this point onward we decided to combine our efforts with Piranha as the rights holder and with them as the Publisher. After about 6 months of hard work together, funding had been secured, Infinity Game Publishing was born and development could begin.
The most positive thing that can be said about the relationship between Piranha and IGP is that both companies wanted to make the same game and Piranha was free to execute upon our vision.
The road to this Blog was an adventure filled with many hurtles and momentous occasions. We are excited and proud of the direction MechWarrior is taking as a PC F2P game. It offers us the ability to make a successor worthy of the MechWarrior name, and one that fans will enjoy for years to come!" By Bryan Ekman

Guess the moron that made the original post forgot about this and did not realize the MWO is a reboot of a reboot of MW that never happened because of "Then word showed up from the big five. The answer was no"

Edited by Amro_One, 05 November 2011 - 05:55 PM.

[VYCanis]

See, thing is, how would someone even balance or create a battletech MMO?

I'm talking in the the fullscale representation of the setting. i.e. joey wants to play a DEST agent, suzy wants to pilot a jumpship, sam wants to be a clan aerospace pilot, doug wants to drive a bushwacker.

Its hard enough getting a dev studio to just nail down the mechwarrior combat aspect of the game, especially with all the different types of vehicles, and all the different animation work that would be required, and customization, and damage systems, but on top of that you have to deal with like a hundred and one different organizations within the setting, you have to make the game engine handle everything from LRM artillery to talking to diplomats, to shootouts in a factory interior, to zero G piloting...

its simply not feasible, not with our present technology or without more money than any other dev studio is willing to slap down.

thats why MW games always focus in on the core aspects of the setting in whatever game it is. Because otherwise you run the risk of spreading yourself thin. Thats why MW:O looks like its trying to go the mp3025 route, as its a simple, tight focus on what they want to represent.

Additionally, i'd rather not see all the bullshit mechanics that usually have to exist in traditional MMOs to manage the hordes of people, nor the spreadsheeting no-lifers the suck the soul out of whatever they play for maximum efficiency. That and any video i've seen of planetside might involve some of the most massive online battles ever, but the actual shooting and gameplay seems incredibly sloppy and lag prone as a side effect of making the bandwidth requirements for each player as low as possible to fit everyone in.

So yeah i'd rather just see a game focus on what it can realistically do. I wouldn't mind a BT game that was about dest agents, or one that focused on space combat, or was all about some narrow slice of the setting. Could be a game about just some periphery slob with a cattlemaster out in the middle of nowhere. So long as there is enough focus to actually make what is being depicted interesting, rather than trying to do it all, and ending up with ****

Edited by VYCanis, 05 November 2011 - 07:43 PM.

[Razor Kotovsky]

BT MMO is just MW with planet infrastructure, basic politics and economics and the galaxy map.
Out of battle interface can be textbased for all i care.

[Sirisian]

Nice to see another thread. I created a similar thread a few days ago here. I covered the how it could work in that thread in a pretty sensible way. House/Faction based combat in a large map with planets similar to how Planetside 2 is handling things. Spawn at a factory then fight for objectives etc. Not really hard game design and doesn't leave the Mechwarrior realm of fighting in lances or the Battletech world of huge wars.

The only people the concept doesn't include is people who want 4v4 combat matches. Something would probably need to be changed for those people to allow that maybe.

// edit, lol:

gregsolidus, on 05 November 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

A full MMO is beyond the scope of what the developers are capable of,can't you tell?

They're creating large maps and allowing multiple lances to fight at the same time already. This means they have the basic networking and art covered. The changes would indeed be larger, but you're overestimating the extra work necessary. Also remember they'll be hosting their own dedicated servers for the game already it sounds like. Not a big change from how an MMO cluster functions.

Edited by Sirisian, 05 November 2011 - 09:31 PM.

[Colaessus]

Its called EVE online and then MWO with some Dust 514 in there, somewhere.