23 replies to this topic

[Sadistic Savior]

I am assuming that the Head is still the most vulnerable area to target. In the videos, no one seems to be targeting it though. Is it harder to hit than I think it is?

I was under the impression that targeting in the game was like real life...your weapons hit and do damage to what they actually appear to hit. Is there some kind of random element when targeting the head or something?

[Redshift2k5]

Note that the head of the mech is not the same as the cockpit hitbox. For example, the Atlas's left eye is the 'cockpit' hitbox, not the whole head.

Heads have a much lower total armor but can be difficult to hit, especially when on the run.

[Eisenhorne]

some mechs (looking at you catapult) have notoriously easy to hit heads, as well... and some, like the atlas, are damn near impossible to bullseye.

[ZealotTheFallen]

if a mech is moving i trully don't see a ranged headshot without an aimbot over 5000 drop+ and i cant think of me every getting hit in head on my dragon while moving and honestly i cant think if i ever had my cockpit taken out till late in a game and beat to hell

[shadevarr]

ZealotTheFallen, on 24 January 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

if a mech is moving i trully don't see a ranged headshot without an aimbot over 5000 drop+ and i cant think of me every getting hit in head on my dragon while moving and honestly i cant think if i ever had my cockpit taken out till late in a game and beat to hell

I've done it several times, mostly vs. people running a straight line so I could lead my shots right. Still suprises me when I get a headshot though, they are tricky.

[Koniving]

Sadistic Savior, on 24 January 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

I am assuming that the Head is still the most vulnerable area to target. In the videos, no one seems to be targeting it though. Is it harder to hit than I think it is?

I was under the impression that targeting in the game was like real life...your weapons hit and do damage to what they actually appear to hit. Is there some kind of random element when targeting the head or something?

There's a number of tricks to this. Early on in the game, the general area of the cockpit registered as the cockpit, and thus it was super easy to take down 'Mechs in single shots. This led to double armor. Later, to a very thorough set of overhauls. Sometimes cockpit register locations move when there are frequent complaints. For example, when the Gauss Rifle was the big goto weapon for all problems, people had explosive kdrs and the forums flooded with complaints. Simply nerfing them wasn't enough. Various cockpit detection locations were slightly moved.

I could list a number of cockpit locations, but this would screw a lot of new players as well as experienced ones. We need our pugs to live longer, not die faster. That said, if you can tell where their cockpit is, aim high on it to avoid the "front torso" hitbox. Sometimes the cockpit isn't where the cockpit is at all, but where a hatch, junction, or control system might be located. (i.e. if you see a door with a handle, a special ridge or bump above or behind the cockpit, etc., there's a strong chance that is the true cockpit hitbox).

The game is more fun if you hunt. Makes it a tad more real, too. Just be glad, in Cicadas and Jenners you're not as screwed as it looks. In a Jenner, if you think someone is aiming for your cockpit when you are looking at them, look up and run. In a Cicada, look down instead. I'm dead serious. o.o;

Good luck!

-----------

Edit: Speaking of which, I can't recall if I gave this suggestion to the suggestion threads or not. But if it's worth suggesting, let me know! A cockpit armor upgrade or purchase (cbills naturally) for 'Mechs which replace the "Transparent Steel" armor of the cockpit with the proper, higher grade real armor that the rest of the 'Mech gets. The trade off would be seeing the outside world through view-screens with a limited field of view. These might be susceptible to ECM jamming (to the point of low signal static, not being blind) or flicker on and off when under fire.

I realize the cost with the initial thoughts might outweigh benefits. But it's an idea. Thoughts?

Edited by Koniving, 24 January 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Ok, so the consensus I am seeing is that:

1) Yes, you can target the cockpit.
2) Yes, it is easy to kill a mech that way.
3) No, they are not easy to do
3) Because the cockpit is not necessarily the "head" of the mech as you actually see it, but just a tiny portion of the head. And you have to hit that small area for the headshot to count.

That being said, how dangerous is a cockpit shot? Can you one-shot a mech via the cockpit using an average weapon like a medium laser? What are the effects of a headshot if your mech does not explode?

(btw - I am comforted to know that headshots are both possible and difficult. I can imagine the complaints from people that have been head-shotted, and it would have been easy for the Devs to simply disallow them)

Koniving, on 24 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Edit: Speaking of which, I can't recall if I gave this suggestion to the suggestion threads or not. But if it's worth suggesting, let me know! A cockpit armor upgrade or purchase (cbills naturally) for 'Mechs which replace the "Transparent Steel" armor of the cockpit with the proper, higher grade real armor that the rest of the 'Mech gets. The trade off would be seeing the outside world through view-screens with a limited field of view. These might be susceptible to ECM jamming (to the point of low signal static, not being blind) or flicker on and off when under fire.

I realize the cost with the initial thoughts might outweigh benefits. But it's an idea. Thoughts?

That is an awesome idea and fits perfectly in the context of the Battletech universe as well.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 24 January 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

you cannot oneshot a cockpit with a medium laser.

Total armor and internals is at least 36 iirc, two gauss slugs direct to the cockpit is insufficient for a clean kill.

[Sadistic Savior]

Redshift2k5, on 24 January 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

you cannot oneshot a cockpit with a medium laser.

Total armor and internals is at least 36 iirc, two gauss slugs direct to the cockpit is insufficient for a clean kill.

Ahhh..I forgot. There is no separate internal structure for each part in the MMO like in the table game...it is one unified structure that is damaged all at once. Ok.

So you would need a weapon big enough to blow away the entire internal structure first.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 24 January 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[101011]

36? Even if they doubled the internal structure (can't remember if they did) it would be a maximum of (9x2)+(3x2)=24, which 2 gauss would destroy.

[Like a Sir]

You need to do more then 32 damage. 15 for internal cockpit structure, 18 for max armor. I one shot centurions with my dual ac20 cat in my sleep (not really, but they die in one salvo 40 dmg ).

@ Sadistic savior There is indeed separate internal structure.

[Evinthal]

Koniving, on 24 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Edit: Speaking of which, I can't recall if I gave this suggestion to the suggestion threads or not. But if it's worth suggesting, let me know! A cockpit armor upgrade or purchase (cbills naturally) for 'Mechs which replace the "Transparent Steel" armor of the cockpit with the proper, higher grade real armor that the rest of the 'Mech gets. The trade off would be seeing the outside world through view-screens with a limited field of view. These might be susceptible to ECM jamming (to the point of low signal static, not being blind) or flicker on and off when under fire.

I realize the cost with the initial thoughts might outweigh benefits. But it's an idea. Thoughts?

If I remember correctly I read somewhere the cockpit "glass" is really just a transparent version of the armor used on the mech. I will have to do some searching to see if I can find it though.

[Like a Sir]

Although if redshift says it's 36, it might be. Ever since closed beta I was under the impression that the cockpit internal structure only had 15 life, but he has been around longer then I...

[Sadistic Savior]

Like a Sir, on 24 January 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

@ Sadistic savior There is indeed separate internal structure.

I was told it was a unified internal structure. In other words..if arm IS is hit, or if leg IS is hit, there is no difference...the damage affects IS as a whole. There is no individual IS per body part as in the table game.

Is this wrong?

[Redshift2k5]

Sadistic Savior, on 24 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I was told it was a unified internal structure. In other words..if arm IS is hit, or if leg IS is hit, there is no difference...the damage affects IS as a whole. There is no individual IS per body part as in the table game.

Is this wrong?

Sections have separate internals- except the front torso and rear torso. (in this case it is two different armor sections and one internal)

Blowing off an arm or leg doesn't deal damage to the connecting side torso.

Like a Sir, on 24 January 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Although if redshift says it's 36, it might be. Ever since closed beta I was under the impression that the cockpit internal structure only had 15 life, but he has been around longer then I...

I think it's 18/18.

It is most definitely more than 30 (total armor and internal) because two gauss rifles doesnt' kill you... Until they reload and shoot you again.

[Bitslizer]

its also the fact that to do a headshot "KILL" you need

A) sufficient Pinpoint damage weapon from burst damage weapon (ie ballastics and PPCs)
ability to hold a Damage over time (DOT) weapon to dish out sufficient damage over time.

in both case you need to do 33 damage assuming full head armor 18 armor + 15 internal

for Option A you have 3 usual way
40 dmg = 2x AC20
40 dmg = 2x Gauss + 1 ERPPC
35 dmg = 2x ER/PPC + 1 Gauss

[Sadistic Savior]

Ah..so it does work in a way similar to the table game. The right arm has right arm IS. Correct?

I assume this is also a different total for each mech, and that it cannot be upgraded?

[Bitslizer]

Redshift2k5, on 24 January 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

you cannot oneshot a cockpit with a medium laser.

Total armor and internals is at least 36 iirc, two gauss slugs direct to the cockpit is insufficient for a clean kill.

33, 18 armor + 15 internal

[Evinthal]

Sadistic Savior, on 24 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I was told it was a unified internal structure. In other words..if arm IS is hit, or if leg IS is hit, there is no difference...the damage affects IS as a whole. There is no individual IS per body part as in the table game.

Is this wrong?

Yes it is wrong. If it weren't then internal structure damage to your arm would change the color on your entire mech damage read out instead of just the specific section.

[Koniving]

Twin Gauss rifles cannot destroy a 'Mech in 1 trigger pull.
Twin AC-20s can up to 270 meters. They may still do serious damage beyond that.

They doubled armor on everything ages ago, hence the current count. A cockpit CANNOT take more than 30 damage, whatever the numbers were. That means 6 medium lasers sustained on a stationary cockpit followed by a single medium laser will kill. Evidently, the sweet-spot total is between 30 and 35-ish.

Edit: Went and tested. The old truth is not the truth. Corrected statement.

Edited by Koniving, 25 January 2013 - 12:23 AM.