38 replies to this topic

[Slugger2012]

Hello dear MWO-Gamers,hello Dev.-Team!

I strongly suggest to reduce the effectiveness of the ECM-System..ECM is good anyway,but its area of effect is to big!

Otherwise,only Mechs with ECM become favoirite and Mechs without it become obsolete..tendence to this factor is seen..

Would be a shame if battlefield is crowded only with Atlas,Ravens and other ECM-equipped Mechs. :/

Would also be a good idea to put an existing weapon into the field,disabeling ECM for a while =) would make games more thrilling i think...(like PPC..witch causes an EM-Pulse to target when hit)...

Would be grateful if this suggestion finds its hearing.

[Sasuga]

Invest in TAG and/or NARC.

It will also not necessarily be so powerful once play becomes more organized and groups are designed to handle different issues (ECM among those issues).

[Slugger2012]

Perhaps better organisation and teamplay WOULD help a little bit...but according to the tabletop-rules The Inner Sphere Guardian ECM weighs 1.5 tons and takes up 2 critical spaces. It has an operational range of six hexes.

There is no evidence of avoiding detection...jamming Artemis,NARC,and C3-Networks (if ever planed to implent in MWO) is a good thing and gives tactical advantages.

According to the tabletop rules Beagle Active Probe does not counterfie the ECM...would make BAP more interesting in MWO given this feature to BAP =)

ECM was never intendet to be a stealth-device what it is primary used for in MWO!

Steathing could be realized by some special sort of armor (i remember to have read about it in some L3 ruels a long time ago)..

Edited by Slugger2012, 25 January 2013 - 04:14 PM.

[focuspark]

Sasuga, on 25 January 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

Invest in TAG and/or NARC.

It will also not necessarily be so powerful once play becomes more organized and groups are designed to handle different issues (ECM among those issues).

TAG yes, NARC does nothing vs ECM.

[Theobald Hauser]

NARC is even negated by ECM, in fact.

[Drawfire]

Hrm, I suppose if people post every day about how over powered the stealth feature in ECM is, it might get fixed.

[CancR]

Drawfire, on 25 January 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Hrm, I suppose if people post every day about how over powered the stealth feature in ECM is, it might get fixed.

We can hope, right?

[MagicHamsta]

ECM be perfectly balanced as is.
Just look at all the LRM boats still roaming around.

Also the rise of non-ECM assault mechs.

Streaks need to be balanced for light mechs though.
'-'

[Roughneck45]

ECM looks overpowered because of the dominance of lights and the reliance on streaks.

When is the last time someone complained about a DDC being overpowered because of ECM?

Losing the ability to use the "R" key is not gamebreaking. Lights mechs anklebiting and lag teleporting through other mechs is.

[Thorn Hallis]

Drawfire, on 25 January 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Hrm, I suppose if people post every day about how over powered the stealth feature in ECM is, it might get fixed.

No. It will only lead to more topics that will find its place in Far Country.

[CancR]

http://mwomercs.com/...s-ecm-and-ssrm/

CancR, on 26 January 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

ECM will only:
-Negate external electronics (Narc,begal, and tag)
-iIncrease lock-on time (perhaps by 2.5 seconds)
-Have a jamming feature will any amount of other ecm with the radius are jammed.

Simply back to tt basics.

SSRMS
-increase lock on time by 1.5 seconds
-Decrease damage from 2.5 to 2
-Streaks cant fire unless the crosshairs are over the target
-streaks lose their lock if anything ether comes between the cross hairs and the targets or the crosshairs move off the target (The mech, not the very large indicator box)

A very simple tweak to really put the game back on track. How ironic that the simple solution was the table top solution all along.

The ECM fix. (And streaks too!)

ECM is over powered right now because they took it way farther then in the TT where only a few mechs can have it (where any one with the space can take in in battle tech) and combining all the ecms into one effect, and adding more abilities onto that. It's ridiculous how much of a cushion they give. Make guardian ECM just guardian ECm and not stealth+total jam.

[Theobald Hauser]

So in TT you had to keep the reticule on target ? And ECCM had no use given ECM did so little ?

[Codejack]

I've given up on PGI's ability to balance the system and have decided to call for its removal, entirely.

[Theobald Hauser]

That won't happen, so you'd better get along the idea that there is an ECM suite and try to tune the thing without throwing away the whole game balance or reworking things from the scratch.
An idea along many, perhaps a bad one, perhaps a good one, but as people don't care at all about "walls of text" ("moar than 3 sentences aaaargh mi hed heurtz") or don't look at all at what has already been suggested, there's not a lot of discussion about it : http://mwomercs.com/...e-design-ideas/

[CancR]

Amarius, on 26 January 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

So in TT you had to keep the reticule on target ?

In battletech facing is very important. All mechs share a small front arc no matter where the weapon is mounted (with the single exception of rear head mounted small lasers) because how facing works (which is the table top equivalent of putting your cross hairs on the enemy) a jenner can be in a hex right next to a atlas, but because in the torso twist phase cant change facing to put the jenner in that front arc, cant fire at the jenner, where the jenner can shoot everything it wanted to. All other weapons follow these rules, and there is no reason why a weapon that does all the aiming for you should also be even easier where you don't have to be looking at the target.

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And ECCM had no use given ECM did so little ?

It's so hard explaining battle tech and mech warrior things to some one who's first game i'm assuming was call od duty Modern warfar *sigh*

ECM
-Battletech added +'s to the number to hit when firing lock on weapons
~Mech warrior should mimic that by making the lock on time longer when locking on into a ECM bubble.
-Battletech ECM nullified the -'s bonuses from NARC, Begal active probe(s) and TAG
~Mechwarrior can mimic that to the tee but not giving the bonus(s) each give when in a ecm bubble
(I.E. If one tried to fire srm with tag into a ECM bubble, well they wouldn't get the tighter missile cluster)
-Battletech ECM you can set gaurdian ecm to jam other ecm
~Mechwarrior can just keep that as is, wholesale.

[Asmudius Heng]

ECM is unbalanced, LRMs are unbalanced, SSRMs are unbalanced.

While guided missiles require much less skill than other weapons they will be more effective - ECM was put in to stop that as a band aid measure to fix the power of SSRM boats and LRM boats spamming from behind cover.

If LRMs and SSRMs have significant drawbacks for their power and they become a weapon that requires more skill to get the most effect out of them ECM will never be balanced properly. Treat the underlying cause of the issue not the issue itself.

Here is my suggestion thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...m-tagnarc-post/

[Xandralkus]

I have made a little diagram detailing an ultra-basic method of how ECM should work, in a fair and balanced way:


This still makes ECM a game-changer, but having eight ECM units on your team isn't going to give you an unfair advantage. You can still sneak around a bit and flank your targets if you're smart about it, and you can still avoid spotters calling in infinite LRM barrages.

Once an LRM boat gets line-of-sight on you, you have line-of-sight on him too. Why should you be able to stop him from shooting you with LRM's at that point? He cannot stop you from shooting him with autocannons, gauss, lasers, etc. The counter to LRM's in this circumstance is to blow up the LRM boat. Any LRM boat that runs full armor is gimping its LRM payload in exchange for survivability, and any LRM boat that isn't will be an easy kill.

[CancR]

^This is all what I was saying, and is correct with the source material Battle Tech. +1

[Theobald Hauser]

CancR, on 26 January 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

In battletech facing is very important. All mechs share a small front arc no matter where the weapon is mounted (with the single exception of rear head mounted small lasers) because how facing works (which is the table top equivalent of putting your cross hairs on the enemy) a jenner can be in a hex right next to a atlas, but because in the torso twist phase cant change facing to put the jenner in that front arc, cant fire at the jenner, where the jenner can shoot everything it wanted to.

No. Facing is equivalent to facing in TT is equivalent.
Again you're making arbitrary definitions.

Quote

All other weapons follow these rules, and there is no reason why a weapon that does all the aiming for you should also be even easier where you don't have to be looking at the target.

All weapons are locked and fired in the forward arc. Again, you're making up things.

Quote

It's so hard explaining battle tech and mech warrior things to some one who's first game i'm assuming was call od duty Modern warfar *sigh*

Yeah, because everyone that disagrees or proves you wrong has to be a call of fan. *sigh*
There goes your credibility and your dignity.

Quote

ECM
-Battletech added +'s to the number to hit when firing lock on weapons
~Mech warrior should mimic that by making the lock on time longer when locking on into a ECM bubble.

You're aware it ALREADY does that ?

Quote

-Battletech ECM nullified the -'s bonuses from NARC, Begal active probe(s) and TAG
~Mechwarrior can mimic that to the tee but not giving the bonus(s) each give when in a ecm bubble
(I.E. If one tried to fire srm with tag into a ECM bubble, well they wouldn't get the tighter missile cluster)

No. TT ECM doesn't deactivate TAG. It deactivates C3s, NARCs and BAPs, and in MWO, too. It deactivates ARTEMIS too, and that is not in MWO.

Quote

-Battletech ECM you can set gaurdian ecm to jam other ecm
~Mechwarrior can just keep that as is, wholesale.

Good lords, there IS something already there that you are aware of and don't want to change pretexting TT rules.

[Codejack]

Amarius, on 26 January 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

That won't happen, so you'd better get along the idea that there is an ECM suite and try to tune the thing without throwing away the whole game balance or reworking things from the scratch.

OK, how? I cannot conceive of anything that would balance out the current functionality of ECM without making the game even worse.


ECM needs to go.