18 replies to this topic

[FrupertApricot]

As i understand it in the universe medium mechs make up about 50 p ercent of all existent mechs, wtih the other classes making up the remainder in various chunks. Seeing 3 heavies 3 assaults and 2 lights constantly is getting depressing and pulling me out of the game. Anychance we can start getting weight limited drops so that slow heavily armed mediums can fulfill their niche once again?

[chiXnhawk]

You just keep bringing Meds.

[Aym]

In the normal matchmaking I think it tries to match you against equal classes, so if you bring a medium they'll have one.

[Spoo Hunter]

Yes, the lore says that the medium is the workhorse of the battlefield, but my experiance with playing BattleTech is that the most commonly used 'mechs are the heavies and lights. People will take what they like, that is why streakcats exist.

My advice is not to worry about it and have fun.

[Voidsinger]

Part of the problem is Incentives.

ECM and lagshield have combined to make the Raven-3L the Flavour of the Month mech with the easykill people. Perception that lights are OP, no matter what the reality really is will draw some in.

With heavies, and particularly assaults, they removed the only disincentive to play them, ongoing running costs. Heavier mechs tend to not die as easily, earn more C-bills due to higher damage output, and earn more experience per match due to the rewards system slanted in favour of damage output.

All this said, when I finish the assaults, I will not go back to them. I favour the mediums for balance reasons, and lights because they are a mech that can keep you thinking to survive.

[Fitzbattleaxe]

Mediums can be tricky to learn, in my experience, but as the game matures I'll imagine you'll see more people playing them. Their role isn't as clearly defined as the other classes. Lights are for scouting and being annoying little pests, heavies and assaults are for piling on the weapons (trading off speed or armor depending on which you go with), while mediums...well it's not really clear. I love my Huchback 4SP now that I'm used to it, but there's less to think about when you're piloting an ecm Raven.

[Allister Rathe]

To be honest I find Mediums to be some of the more engaging 'Mechs to play, they have enough of a mix between speed, firepower, and armor if you build them right that they can hold their own in most any situation. The best way to think of a medium 'Mech in my mind is to play it as an extension of the assault 'Mechs on your team, your job is to stick with them, discourage lights or other fast mediums from poking around the tender backsides of your slower buddies, and pour on your firepower to whatever bigger enemy your assault engages. They can do very well in one on one situations when well piloted, but generally speaking a medium 'Mech is very much the workhorse of the team that fills in the gaps between the speedy scouts and the slower, heavy weapons platforms of Heavy and Assault 'Mechs.

To my mind mediums are the thinking man's 'Mech because of the jack of all trades mentality that they seem to revolve around, allowing you to adapt your piloting to the situation at hand. Knowing when to stay and slug it out or re-position to harry the enemy's flank with your decent speed and firepower is the key.

[Khobai]

medium mechs lost their role when their speed was capped.

yes swayback speed needed to be nerfed. but they didnt have to nerf every other medium because of the swayback.

[FrupertApricot]

Keep bragging about how you like to use em, fine and good, but we need to incentivize them. In tabletop mediums were good for outrunning heavies while outgunning lights. In MWO they cant outrun the heavies due to the models we have being 4/6 types and they cant outgun the assaults due to the insane amounts of SHS you need to have a viable build.

[Khobai]

Quote

In MWO they cant outrun the heavies

exactly. In MWO a heavy goes the same speed as a medium but has 30% more weapons and armor.

the only exceptions being the ecm Cicada and the Centurion-D. those are the only decent fast mediums left.

[Voidsinger]

I think the Trebuchet could be the allrounder we need with a decent speed, hardpoint and jumpjet options.

Unless you're a big ballistics fan, the treb seems to have all the bases of a great medium covered.

[Khobai]

Quote

I think the Trebuchet could be the allrounder we need with a decent speed, hardpoint and jumpjet options.

Yeah except introducing a new medium mech which completely outclasses all existing medium mechs is a terrible idea.

[FrupertApricot]

The main problem is the centurion is huge for its weight lol

[Voidsinger]

Khobai, on 26 January 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

Yeah except introducing a new medium mech which completely outclasses all existing medium mechs is a terrible idea.

I don't think it will. I suspect it will have its own vulnerabilities.

It does bring a slight speed edge though in some models.

To be honest though, just what is left?

The Clint or Vulcan would give us a 40 ton 6/9/6 medium.

The Whitworth? The Assassin?

The Dervish lacks variants at this time.

We need to face it that the medium class was the one most gutted by the removal of the Unseens, and that weakness is most reflected at this time period.

[Allister Rathe]

FrupertApricot, on 26 January 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Keep bragging about how you like to use em, fine and good, but we need to incentivize them. In tabletop mediums were good for outrunning heavies while outgunning lights. In MWO they cant outrun the heavies due to the models we have being 4/6 types and they cant outgun the assaults due to the insane amounts of SHS you need to have a viable build.

It's not bragging at all. It's just a simple description of how I like to play them, and in general I've been effective at it. Does it work every time? Of course not. Just because you can't see the worth of piloting a medium 'Mech and don't see others piloting them, doesn't mean everyone else in the community has had the same experience. That being said, there seems to be this mentality in many players that when they build their 'Mech, they think in terms of a 1v1 situation. I need to be fast to counter lights, I need more armor to survive the heavies and assaults, I need more weapons to take down my enemy faster, or whatever the case may be. That can be hard to find for some people in a medium weight 'Mech. What a pilot should be thinking of is a role you want to fulfill on your team, either as a support brawler, a skirmisher, artillery, scout, light hunter, or whatever and make that role as effective as you can based on the team that you drop with.

The idea that we need to artificially limit the number of lights, mediums, heavies, or assaults as opposed to dropping equal tonnage rank chassis on either side will only result in stale matches where you KNOW, every time, exactly the number of weight classes on the enemy team, without variety.

[Voidsinger]

Part of the problem is the missing leg from the stability chair.

Repair and Running Costs

It's the old 80/20 issue. Mediums were the most balanced solution to most issues, at a REASONABLE COST

Without R&R, without the bigger maps to make assault speed painful, there is no real price tright now to play an assault, except cockpit boredom, and hatred of moving like a pig in mud.

Economics was one of the most important factors in mech choices and why units were built around mediums.

The unfortunate fact is, the race to make all classes equally playable is what is making the mediums more unplayable.

[Lorcan Lladd]

I believe that the main reason why the Medium weight class is unappealing to most pilots is that there are 'Mechs like the Dragon and Catapult in the Heavy 'Mech selection which can safely equip high rating XL Engines due to the reduced size of their Side Torsos as a design feature...
As others have mentioned, this alone means that the average Heavy packs more speed, armor and firepower than the average Medium.

Design matters.

My two cents.

[Yanlowen Cage]

Maybe these would work.

Drop weights restrictions. (example: Mechcommander)

Bv drops (for those of you who don't know BV, all base mechs and the equipment there carry battle value or BV)
Hence mechs units of approx. the same BV would drop together. With BV a standard Raven without ECM would not have as much value as one that does.

Stock engines only. everything stays the same but you can't swap engines out. Too difficult in a short period of time. Short being under say several months to rebuild the mech to fit a larger/smaller engine.

Edited by Yanlowen Cage, 26 January 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[verybad]

I do think the Treb will be effective, though whether it's a game changer remains to be seen. If a Treb build also gets ECM, it will be a game changer.

I'm not terribly concerned about the team layouts currently as the whole deck isn't on the table, there are still things that are going to change or be added. We'll see.

The only way Mediums are gong to be the most common mech on the tfield however is if they're the most effective. I don't think IPG will force the curve.

Edited by verybad, 26 January 2013 - 05:43 PM.