31 replies to this topic

[Termius]

Hero mechs will never be as "Unique" as you seem to want them to be. You get hardpoint variations and a custom skin. That is how it is for all hero mechs at the moment and thats how it should be for all future hero mechs.

I like the way they have it set up, hero mechs hurt like any other but are no more powerful then the stock variants. The c-bill bonus is a perfect way of adding incentive to playing them while not hurting actual gameplay. The skins look awesome as well.

If they made a hero mech actually "Unique" it would break the FTP aspect of the game and make it somewhat PTW.

[8CH Trooper]

I have the YLW and was disappointed by it and I have not purchased another Hero mech. I would like to see some truly unique mechs, not just some repainted version of a stock mech with a couple of different hard points and some extra cbill bill earnings. Like a 55 ton Hunch with more crit. spots and some different types of weapons that can only be bought with MC or a completely different mech not available with cbills, now I know this will insight the p2w crowd and they will rage at me for this, but the fact is, this a f2p game and as they say "there is no such thing as a free lunch". I play WoT and they have 50+ dollar elite tanks, I don't have one but that is my choice and from what I have seen they sell a lot of elite tanks of all prices. This translates into more money for R&D and a better gaming experience for us. I don't have a problem with some one spending their money for a unique item and slight advantage in a game that is free. The people who are dead set against this are the ones that want their cake and eat it too. They don't want to spend any money on a f2p game but they want that game to be bigger, faster and stronger that any other game out there. News flash, you can't have it both ways people, we can have a game like the current MWO that only has a small cash flow and no hope of being anything else or PGI can create things that people will spend a lot of their hard earned money on and we eventually get a game that we all want. Camo and cockpit items are a start and I'm sure they will be adding other items like that but I don't think they will generate enough income to sustain a steady growth of the game. Purchasing an Elite Tank/Mech is not a guaranteed win, all it does is give you a slight advantage which can be overcome with team work and smart game play, owning one is not playing in "God Mode".

[Roughneck45]

8CH Trooper, on 26 January 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I have the YLW and was disappointed by it and I have not purchased another Hero mech. I would like to see some truly unique mechs, not just some repainted version of a stock mech with a couple of different hard points and some extra cbill bill earnings. Like a 55 ton Hunch with more crit. spots and some different types of weapons that can only be bought with MC or a completely different mech not available with cbills, now I know this will insight the p2w crowd and they will rage at me for this, but the fact is, this a f2p game and as they say "there is no such thing as a free lunch". I play WoT and they have 50+ dollar elite tanks, I don't have one but that is my choice and from what I have seen they sell a lot of elite tanks of all prices. This translates into more money for R&D and a better gaming experience for us. I don't have a problem with some one spending their money for a unique item and slight advantage in a game that is free. The people who are dead set against this are the ones that want their cake and eat it too. They don't want to spend any money on a f2p game but they want that game to be bigger, faster and stronger that any other game out there. News flash, you can't have it both ways people, we can have a game like the current MWO that only has a small cash flow and no hope of being anything else or PGI can create things that people will spend a lot of their hard earned money on and we eventually get a game that we all want. Camo and cockpit items are a start and I'm sure they will be adding other items like that but I don't think they will generate enough income to sustain a steady growth of the game. Purchasing an Elite Tank/Mech is not a guaranteed win, all it does is give you a slight advantage which can be overcome with team work and smart game play, owning one is not playing in "God Mode".

PGI wants to keep their dignity though, so unlike the WoT developers who are ok with P2W, PGI is not.

They make plenty of money with the Hero Mech system they are using right now.

I can understand your buyers remorse with the YLW though. If you don't enjoy sniping with a gauss or AC20, and only having 2 lasers to support it, then it's not the mech for you. It is certainly the most limited of the Hero Mechs.

[Cerlin]

I am a founder too but If they make hero mechs in the way you demand, it will make the game pay to win and break the game for most players. I really hope they dont do that.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

8CH Trooper, on 26 January 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I would like to see some truly unique mechs, not just some repainted version of a stock mech with a couple of different hard points and some extra cbill bill earnings.

That is exactly what Hero mechs will always be. I think it's a good thing, but obviously they can't please everyone.

[8CH Trooper]

I know people have a hard time getting their minds wrapped around this whole "p2w" thing. I will use WoT as a comparison because I think most people have some knowledge the game. The way some people describe p2w implies that by purchasing an "elite" tank gives you such an overwhelming advantage in the game that you, by direct comparison, will win virtually every tank on tank engagement, this is simply not true. From what I have observed, although the Elite tank has an advantage it most certainly does not guarantee a win which the p2w term implies. If we take away the emotional arguments like "PGI would never lower themselves to be p2w" or " MWO would die if it was p2w" the real point is that PGI is in business to make money and since this a f2p game where do you think that money is going to come from?. There has been mention of that the Hero mech sales will carry the day, I disagree, if that were true we would see matches with upwards to 10 Hero mechs in them, right now I'm only seeing 2 or 3. IMO the only way we will see a real spike in Hero mech sale is if they become unique enough that people will be willing to spend real money for them, so now we are back to the Elite tanks of WoT model. I want MWO to be successful and being a founder demonstrates I am prepared to spend my hard earned money on MWO, but I need PGI to give me a reason to spend my money here and right now I have no reason to pay 20 dollrs for a fancy paint job or 5 dollars for a bobble head.

[Troop]

8CH Trooper, on 26 January 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

I know people have a hard time getting their minds wrapped around this whole "p2w" thing. I will use WoT as a comparison because I think most people have some knowledge the game. The way some people describe p2w implies that by purchasing an "elite" tank gives you such an overwhelming advantage in the game that you, by direct comparison, will win virtually every tank on tank engagement, this is simply not true. From what I have observed, although the Elite tank has an advantage it most certainly does not guarantee a win which the p2w term implies. If we take away the emotional arguments like "PGI would never lower themselves to be p2w" or " MWO would die if it was p2w" the real point is that PGI is in business to make money and since this a f2p game where do you think that money is going to come from?. There has been mention of that the Hero mech sales will carry the day, I disagree, if that were true we would see matches with upwards to 10 Hero mechs in them, right now I'm only seeing 2 or 3. IMO the only way we will see a real spike in Hero mech sale is if they become unique enough that people will be willing to spend real money for them, so now we are back to the Elite tanks of WoT model. I want MWO to be successful and being a founder demonstrates I am prepared to spend my hard earned money on MWO, but I need PGI to give me a reason to spend my money here and right now I have no reason to pay 20 dollrs for a fancy paint job or 5 dollars for a bobble head.

oh thank god someone else is on my side LOL ... roughneck and warrax were making some good points that allmost convinced me otherwise but thanks trooper.

this is EXACTLY what i was saying. i truly dont see how having a hero clan mech ( without having necesarely CLAN TECH ON IT) would be game breaking.... hell if you MUST take off the 30 % c bill boost on it and if you want even give it LESS armour values than the regular counterparts.

Its been many MANY years but if i remember corectly a mad cat would have 2 ER large lasers 2 LRM racks (not sure what those would be if they would be LRM 10 15 or 20s) and 2 machine guns... now i ask you this is that SO game breaking? i dont think so it would just be another mech.... just like the hero mechs we have walking arround now that can do an extra thing or 2 that the regular chasies cant.... as well as giving extra cash too.. THATS ALLREADY pay to win i truly dont get what the big deal would be.

Edited by Troop, 26 January 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[Fitzbattleaxe]

You don't need hero mechs to be strictly better in order for people to spend money. You already see a couple in every match. People buy because of the bonuses, and because the hardpoint layout might be better for their particular style of play. People will also spend money on new mech bays, because if you *do* grind for hours an hours to be able to afford an Atlas, you're going to be reluctant to sell it later to make room for something else.

Now if you want a bit more variation from the stock variants, I wouldn't have a problem with some chassis being pay-only. Maybe they could offer a (reseen) Warhammer for MC, but it still wouldn't be strictly better than another heavy mech that people could get for free.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

8CH Trooper, on 26 January 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

I know people have a hard time getting their minds wrapped around this whole "p2w" thing. [...] will win virtually every tank on tank engagement, this is simply not true. From what I have observed, although the Elite tank has an advantage it most certainly does not guarantee a win which the p2w term implies.[..]

Like I said earlier in the thread, P2W doesn't mean unstoppable, indestructible, one-shot kill button, win-while-afk. It's kind of a debatable term that generally means putting something highly desirable behind a pay-wall; something that gives a measurable advantage, even if the advantage isn't huge.

It depends on what your definition of pay-to-win is. I think your definition is wrong, you think my definition is wrong; and honestly, that's okay. A game that sold IWIN buttons obviously wouldn't last very long, it's the more subtle P2W stuff that will ruin a company's reputation.

I haven't played WoT in part because it has a reputation as being P2W. I have no problem with spending money on a game, but I'm not interested in getting any kind of advantage with cash purchases, even moderate ones. Free-to-play games are a relatively new and competitive market, and anyone entering at this point needs to be careful or risk losing consumer confidence.

[Roughneck45]

8CH Trooper, on 26 January 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

There has been mention of that the Hero mech sales will carry the day, I disagree, if that were true we would see matches with upwards to 10 Hero mechs in them, right now I'm only seeing 2 or 3.

PGI are the only ones with the raw data.

If it wasnt working, they wouldnt be sticking with it.

and 2-3 every match means that about 1/5 of the community has them, which is a ton of money, from your numbers anyway. People that buy the Hero mechs usually have more than one as well.

Edited by Roughneck45, 26 January 2013 - 05:08 PM.

[sanadawarrior]

Troop, on 26 January 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

oh thank god someone else is on my side LOL ... roughneck and warrax were making some good points that allmost convinced me otherwise but thanks trooper.

this is EXACTLY what i was saying. i truly dont see how having a hero clan mech ( without having necesarely CLAN TECH ON IT) would be game breaking.... hell if you MUST take off the 30 % c bill boost on it and if you want even give it LESS armour values than the regular counterparts.

Its been many MANY years but if i remember corectly a mad cat would have 2 ER large lasers 2 LRM racks (not sure what those would be if they would be LRM 10 15 or 20s) and 2 machine guns... now i ask you this is that SO game breaking? i dont think so it would just be another mech.... just like the hero mechs we have walking arround now that can do an extra thing or 2 that the regular chasies cant.... as well as giving extra cash too.. THATS ALLREADY pay to win i truly dont get what the big deal would be.

You are forgetting that more goes into a madcat than just its weapon config, (which is not what you said), it is also faster and more heavily armored than most IS mechs of the same weight.

The game is on a mirrored clock with the Mechwarrior timeline so Clan mechs should make their debut in the Innersphere sometime this year. As far as making a Madcat/Timberwolf mc only, the idea is ridiculous because it is one of the most desirable mechs for players and making it MC only would be seen as "milking" us.

Edited by sanadawarrior, 26 January 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[Monsoon]

Troop, on 26 January 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

its been a long while since then and i still have most of my MC (granted i broke my own rule a bit and purchased some of those nifty cool cockpit accesories :-) i havent been spending my MC allmost at all for the following reason. I keep waiting for cooler hero mechs.

As it stands now hero mechs are just slight variations of the standar mechs we can allready get ( and in alot of cases you can mimic the build of a hero mech on a standard mech of the same chasi (maybe with a slight variation due to hardpoint differences)

What i invisioned when i started playing is that hero mechs would TRULY TRULY be unique... not another commando.... or another dragon or centurion but rather a UNIQUE mech alltogeather, such as a clan mech like the Mad Cat or Uller or ... i dont know... you know THOSE. i am still waiting for PGI to add some truly unique hero mechs for me to actually start spending my MC.

That would be the definite beginning path to Pay to Win. A terrible idea.

I like what they've done so far with Hero Mechs (granted I haven't bought one yet), and I hope they keep churning them out. I do hope some of the Hero Mechs will allow for hard points not at all found in the standard builds. Ie. Missile Slots in a Cicada or Spider, Ballistic in an Awesome.

The closest thing to a 'Unique' Hero Mech I think would be okay with is the Grand Dragon, since it's really just a Dragon anyway.