80 replies to this topic

[Taurick]

Just change it's temperature sensitivity

Make it less able to spot cool objects from one another, then you can't pick idle mechs from the scenery or navigate around scenery so easily

edit: Basically, I mean make the thermal unable to distinguish between -30, 0, or 30. Minimum detectable temperature should be whatever a mech is at about 5% heat (full run on forest colony), everything below that (still mechs, scenery, buildings) should appear grey on thermals

Edited by Taurich, 26 January 2013 - 11:38 PM.

[King Arthur IV]

my game crashes less cuz i use thermal all game

thermal is a waste of nice graphics and our systems.

[Khobai]

thermal should require a module because its better than night vision on the night map. night vision should be the only default vision mode.

[LoneUnknown]

EmCeeMendez, on 26 January 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Thermal should be a module.

This, really this.

If I recall from some of the early flowcharts it was intended to be.

[Moonsavage]

I agree with OP, playing on Thermal is both necessary and ugly.

ECM kinda exacerbates the problem too - when you can see mechs but not target them.

[Dreepa]

Dukarriope, on 26 January 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

The simple way to stop people from using thermal 24/7 would be to get rid of the overzealous distance fog. There, I said it!

As it is, under real circumstances, fog can actually obscure thermal vision too.

This!

[MrDrunkenMaster]

I totally agree with the OP.

On the snow maps, and the night maps, Thermal is 100% neccesary.

On any forest maps, the trees create too much visual clutter to target mechs at a distance, or if there is broken ground its very hard to see.

The basic problem is that the mechs are camoflaged, and fast moving, and the maps are very visually complex and create lots of movement artifacts. While you are moving, there is lots of parallax of various objects, which are at differnt heights/distances from the eye, which creates a lot of visual activity.

It makes targeting a moving mech against a moving background a real challenge. And I have no problem with the game being difficult BUT thermal allows you to disregrard the clutter as it is all the same heat value - sets the game back to easy mode.

.- my problem is that although I dislike thermal, I have no option but to use it as otherwise I will be getting accurately targeted by mechs that I cannot see. I put myself at a massive disavantage by using normal vision.

The problem is getting much worse, as people are starting to figure out how to use the high alpha distance shots with gauss+PCC with the new improved netcode to actually hit and kill, and it is very much needed to use thermal + zoom to create these kinds of shots.

Almost every game now starts with the snipers finding a spot and zooming in with heat vision, and playing a 4 color game an atari could handle.

So ... solutions ?

1. Improve the Thermal vision. I wouldn't hate it it if didnt look like I was playing a game from the 80's - all blocky and grainy and only a few colors. When I show my friends the game, its embarrasing and a big turn off.

2. And/or - Improve the maps so that different areas of rock/water/trees have different heat values. This would create a similar visual clutter in the thermal view and make it much harder to use. This would also improve the graphical quality of the game.

3. The planetside 2 solution : thermal has a limited range there which limits its OP'ness . This would be the simplest fix, simply increase the fog value for thermal. Similar to this is the solution to disable zoom while thermal is active.......However, I hope this does not happen - my wish would be to see improvements not nerfs..with this in mind.

4. My final suggestion is to improve the colors and contrast of the normal vision, and or reduce the fog value so that the game is not such an eye test. I feel that half the problem is the very poor color contrast of the game + film grain + fog, if you view a mech at anything over 200m it just washes all the colours out of it. This is a big problem for a game where one of the primary income streams is people buying paints to improve the looks of their mech. What's the point if all other people can see is a gray blur, or if everyone is using thermal vision where the paint doesn't show up ? This option would need just some tweaking of the existing parameters.......I have improved the game visually quite a lot using the third party sweetfx shaders so I know this is possible........I hope PGI takes this option as it would make the game so much better for everyone AND provide the most income for them.



I think thermal as a module is non starter, it just gimps new players even more, and wastes a module slot, and half the maps are unplayable without it.....a terrible option.

[MechWarrior071507]

Thermal lowers my framerate by 2-5 points.

[Bren McGuire]

Profiteer, on 26 January 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

On most maps I find myself pushing H at the start and playing in thermal vision; it's simply easier to spot enemy mechs, particularly at a distance.

The problem is it's sooo boring to look at.

When I'm spectating I see a lot of other people using thermal as well.

It's a waste of cry-engine 3. I know it's my own decision to use it, but I feel switching to normal vision puts you at a disadvantage on some maps, and night vision is a joke.

I don't know if it should be removed, or perhaps made a VERY expensive module? (and ditch advanced zoom )

So.... you want to make something that is useful for everyone into something that only veteran players can use, and will use with great effect against the lifeblood of FTP: newbies. They have a hard enough time already..

[Adrienne Vorton]

how about just making the advanced zoom better, that would enable a better vision on longer distance than thermal^^

oh wait, they probably will do so

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 27 January 2013 - 03:53 AM.

[Bluescuba]

both thermal and nightvision should have a range of approximately 250 metres. With regard to thermal this range should double to 500 metres when a mech is close to 100% heat, however, the surronding landscape should not be visable beyond the 250 metres.

[Voidcrafter]

To be honest this have bothered me from the day I started this game - I really dislike the way the game looks in thermal vision mode(like noted - it's "cry engine 3" but the game looks the same way that Alien Versus Predator( 1 !!) looked like while playing with the Predator, and that was 10 years back...).
I don't mind not liking SINGLE game feature - and put that way this doesn't seems like serious problem.
However...
Playing without 80%+ in thermal vision mode strats making me feel very underpowered, just cause the other players plays with it and yes - that itzi bitzi build-in making-the-visuals-unbearable ability give you the unfair advantage to be able to spot enemies from 1.5km+ away.
No, there is no other way to do that in the fashion the vision mode does(tho I haven't tryied the zoom module yet, but still I can pretty much bet that zoom + thermal is better than only zoom).
So basically I feel like I can either enjoy the game visuals and feel my money spent for great PC config justified, or... try to win the game for real.
No, I dont feel that I can do both at the same time and I won't defend myself with the line that "I'm sure that many others feel the same" (tho I'm pretty sure it's the truth ).
I understand, that implementing the mech's heat signature be visible, while maintaining the normal vision will not be solution at all(since it'll jump from 80% time usage to 100%), also removing it will absolutely break the "sniping" gameplay, making it module will make the trial players feell very underpowered and honestly I have no solution in mind for this.
But I really feel bad when the game looks that... terrible... while it's so "heavy" to run and have so much visual cookies to provide.
On secon thoughts, removing the vision probably will boost the player awarness and skill to a whole new level(when get used to ofcourse) and make the trees finally some serious cover, while now(again - mostly cause of the thermal vision) you feel like an ***** with a screen covered with leafs, while you shine like a big, shining bright, friggin blue christmas tree in the distance
With that tweaking the upcomming magnetometer to keep the original visuals, but showing the mechs metal signature through objects, maybe seems a bit like justification - if made extreamly expensive, costly and hard to get, available for handful of mechs or something - really I'm not good at all with the sugestions...
Anyways, I thank whoever made he's will to get to this line and not wishing to flame my sorry backtail
Sorry for any offense caused and bad grammar.

[Thorqemada]

Yeah, i feel forced to use Heat Vision when it should be optional and situational useful.
It slowly annoys me when i have to use it 80% of the time when it should be not more than 10% to 20% of the match duration and the occasional night map.
ECM Blues...

Edited by Thorqemada, 28 January 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[Quazil]

RedDragon, on 26 January 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

People. Really. It's a game. You play it for fun. If you don't have fun using Thermal, then just don't. Is it so hard? Why do people always have to use the most cheesy ways to play, even if they don't have fun doing so?

That's like saying you're not going to use a backhand while playing tennis because you don't like to. It's just not "fun".

Edited by Quazil, 28 January 2013 - 11:28 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Making it a module sounds like a nice idea, but - even as a module it still will provide you with a significant benefit when you have and use it, at the cost of not being able to enjoy the graphics.

This trade-off will always be as long as Thermal Vision keeps working in its effect as is.

I actually prefer the idea of a that mixes normal sigh tand thermal vision - hot objects get a visible outline. Or maybe that's the magnetic vision thingy or what it's called... Something that is basically Normal Vision with extra helpers. That could perhaps be a module.

[Voidcrafter]

Quazil, on 28 January 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

That's like saying you're not going to use a backhand while playing tennis because you don't like to. It's just not "fun".

Yea this.
Also for my age I've spent alotta time infront of the PC - I'm sitting 'front the screen since I was 7(PRAVEC 8a FTW), that's ~21 years till now(with pretty good average hours per day sum), I work as an app. programmer, which adds to the everyday time and all in all it's very, very, very large amount of time.
My point is - I have issues with the eyes and frankly constantly being in this vision mode really pains me(literally). This proves how much I like the game, but I hope it also prove, that I wouldn't be the random, selfish ***** that posts stuff cause of nothing else to do it's just.... a bit too much
My point also is that they are probably more people like me that have some minor/major health(eyes) issues that would feel the same way as I do.
And tbh I've had some real life company behind my back few times I played the game(as someone else noted in the topic) and they not just missed the point how beutiful this game could be, but (they) also noted, that this is the most terrible looking graphics they've seen in a way while.
I hope that last line didnt hurted too much
I'm not completely agree with that statement, but it really bothers me that this game have the current system requirements, while 80% of the time I'm forced to make it look like dark-blue stuff I played 15+ years ago...
Disclaimer: I am neither saying that you don't do something good enough, nor I am complaying not liking the game.
In fact - I pretty much claim the oposite - I'm keep playing it despite that my eyes hurt(literally again) from it, not be able to feel the cry engine 3
I just wanna have multiple eye-orgasm while having fun and winning at the same time!

[Tarman]

Quazil, on 28 January 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

That's like saying you're not going to use a backhand while playing tennis because you don't like to. It's just not "fun".

If you really need thermal on that much you are crutching yourself. It's not a backhand, it's your favourite pair of sunglasses, easily removed or replaced. It's useful, not necessary. I can spot most stuff just fine at thermal ranges with the Mk1; the thermal is for confirmation, quickscan, and actually crappy view conditions like the blizzardy weather you can get on Frozen.

If you live in the thermal you are hampering your own usefulness as you're relying completely on an extended vision mode as your primary mode. It makes default Mk1s your "Badvision", which makes you less effective when thermal bottoms out. If PPC hits include sketching your thermals you're gonna be in real trouble.

[Voidcrafter]

Tarman, on 29 January 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

If you really need thermal on that much you are crutching yourself. It's not a backhand, it's your favourite pair of sunglasses, easily removed or replaced. It's useful, not necessary. I can spot most stuff just fine at thermal ranges with the Mk1; the thermal is for confirmation, quickscan, and actually crappy view conditions like the blizzardy weather you can get on Frozen.

If you live in the thermal you are hampering your own usefulness as you're relying completely on an extended vision mode as your primary mode. It makes default Mk1s your "Badvision", which makes you less effective when thermal bottoms out. If PPC hits include sketching your thermals you're gonna be in real trouble.

Try to sniper on Forest Colony without it. Those who use it like I do count on spotting the enemy first, not taking a full magazine from gauss/UAC5/ER PPC and then realize someone's watching.
You just *CANT* see a mech from *THAT* far, while you can, for example, on the same noted map(Forest Colony) from the lower base, the first hill, see the enemy in their base.
That's about 2km range or so, in range, that on the very high details even a small bit of forest seems like a blurry 2sm. dot. And I've tested it both on my 22 inch monitor as my 42inch plasma.
My point - if you can see the enemies clear in the lower graphical details - don't see how this is good, fair or whatever at all.
If you can't see the enemies on any graphical settings, but can do in thermal vision - don't see how this is good, fair or whatever at all.
Yea, it's "sunglasses" all right - ones, that give you the ability to see the danger through the impenetrable(with unnarmed eye) solid walls called "distance", "tree obstacles", "small wall/building cracks", "thin/grid walls", and "camouphlage paitings"
Now who's gonna be the cool kid that would throw these sunglasses, even for a night walk?
Or your'e pointing that wanting to see something around 1.4/6km(off the sensor range - no ECM matters) away so could take advantage from the range(and be able to scratch it/worn it off a bit) is a bad playstyle?
Honestly, it's really frustrating how you can see mechs in camouphlage paint behind virtual obstacles(trees for example) when you turn your heat vision and they sart shining brightly, while otherwise you would have skipped em - that has happened to me more times I would like to admit and I have doubts how fair it is.
Do you understand why I feel forced to use my backhand/glasses now that much?

[KumoriMyou]

night vision and thermal vision i find are usless but i can admit some situations they are good for
i can CLEARLY see other mechs without using eather

Edited by KumoriMyou, 29 January 2013 - 01:11 AM.

[Tarman]

Voidcrafter, on 29 January 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

Try to sniper on Forest Colony without it. Those who use it like I do count on spotting the enemy first, not taking a full magazine from gauss/UAC5/ER PPC and then realize someone's watching.
You just *CANT* see a mech from *THAT* far, while you can, for example, on the same noted map(Forest Colony) from the lower base, the first hill, see the enemy in their base.
That's about 2km range or so, in range, that on the very high details even a small bit of forest seems like a blurry 2sm. dot. And I've tested it both on my 22 inch monitor as my 42inch plasma.
My point - if you can see the enemies clear in the lower graphical details - don't see how this is good, fair or whatever at all.
If you can't see the enemies on any graphical settings, but can do in thermal vision - don't see how this is good, fair or whatever at all.
Yea, it's "sunglasses" all right - ones, that give you the ability to see the danger through the impenetrable(with unnarmed eye) solid walls called "distance", "tree obstacles", "small wall/building cracks", "thin/grid walls", and "camouphlage paitings"
Now who's gonna be the cool kid that would throw these sunglasses, even for a night walk?
Or your'e pointing that wanting to see something around 1.4/6km(off the sensor range - no ECM matters) away so could take advantage from the range(and be able to scratch it/worn it off a bit) is a bad playstyle?
Honestly, it's really frustrating how you can see mechs in camouphlage paint behind virtual obstacles(trees for example) when you turn your heat vision and they sart shining brightly, while otherwise you would have skipped em - that has happened to me more times I would like to admit and I have doubts how fair it is.
Do you understand why I feel forced to use my backhand/glasses now that much?

Useful, never said it wasn't. Critical or you can't play properly, hardly.

I run far too many ballistics to be dissing a long range game. I can snipe on Forest just fine without thermal constantly running. Sometimes thermal's more useful and sometimes it's distracting, but I can see targets moving far out of lock range with MK1s guy, IDK what to tell you. I like thermals for picking up whether a group is moving but for most shooting I drop out of thermals unless I'm watching for it to ghost behind a hill so I don't waste a shot. Maybe I just track anomalous movement better than you, I've been shooting at video game things since you could snipe with a pistol in DOOM, at a demon that's so far away it's about 6 pixels.

Swap out once in a while when you're thermaling and see if you can't improve your MK1 tracking a bit. I'm not saying don't use it, I'm just saying it's not as critical as you're making it to be.