29 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

For weapons groups 6 seems to be there just because it looks pretty. Why max out at 6 weapons groups and a certain number of weapons just to look pretty? You can still have your pretty prettiness tho.

Here is how.

6 is default size and spacing.

Have text size and spacing reduced for every additional weapon and group. Thus you still have the same hud space, but are not limited in regards to your max weapons and weapons groups purely because of aesthetics.

Edited by ManDaisy, 24 May 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[XTRMNTR2K]

While I personally can't imagine ever needing more than 5 or 6 weapon groups at the most, I wouldn't want anyone to feel left behind because of a lack of weapon groups. So yeah, I support that proposal.

Something like 8-10 should be sufficient, though... right? Even that should already be a micromanagement nightmare to most people...

[Steel Talon]

Usually use only 3 for 3 button mouse
I hope for easy-to-use chainfire mode, as it helps with heat controll a lot

[Gremlich Johns]

I rarely use more than 3.

[canned wolf]

If they allowed me to have a weapon in multiple groups (Like living legends), I could see this being an issue. I still usually only use three, but that's mostly a limit of using a mouse instead of my FCS. I like to have weapons grouped based on range, then also have them grouped based on heat output. That way if I'm running hot, I can still return fire with my AC/5 while I leave the Large Laser out so I don't overheat.

[MaddMaxx]

Given Range, Type (ballistic, missile, Laser) and Heat as prime categories, 6 groups can fit the Bill nicely. I use 4 as a rule generally. More is fine but until you get into the Heavy and Assault classes, due to HP's limitations, weapons #'s should be such that 6 groups would be sufficient in almost all cases.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 25 May 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[ManDaisy]

Well congrats to all you guys who can do without it, but the way I play I really tweak everything to the max so I really need maybe even up to 20. 6 weapons groups REALLY REALLY will limit me because I like use weapon combinations to make {proxy} weapons that that you could call "advanced weapons arrays" that usually dont have characteristics of any weapon that exist.


Example:

The Ultra-continuous-Gundam-Beam-cannon

Composition: 12 medium lasers.

Weapon Groups taken to create: 4
Group composition: 3 medium laser in each group.

How to use it.

Chain fire each weapon group. Wait for the first group to discharge 2/3s of the way before moving to the next group. By cycling weapons groups you end up with a constant 15 damage beam weapon that only generates a constant flow of 9 heat = ~ 1 large laser or ppc. With enough heat sinks continuing indefinitely is not a problem. Output can also be adjusted with additional heat 2 time ratio by firing more groups at once. If you mounted it on a hunchback this beam weapon would only come thru the right torso, leaving it with no spread and very concentrated damage.

BY holding down all 4 buttons in sequence and never letting go, the weapon will naturally follow into its pattern when it becomes ready to fire again, of course playing with one hand constantly mashed down is a silly way to play.

Edited by ManDaisy, 25 May 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

ManDaisy, on 25 May 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Well congrats to all you guys who can do without it, but the way I play I really tweak everything to the max so I really need maybe even up to 20. 6 weapons groups REALLY REALLY will limit me because I like use weapon combinations to make {proxy} weapons that that you could call "advanced weapons arrays" that usually dont have characteristics of any weapon that exist.


Example:

The Ultra-continuous-Gundam-Beam-cannon

Composition: 12 medium lasers.

Weapon Groups taken to create: 4
Group composition: 3 medium laser in each group.

How to use it.

Chain fire each weapon group. Wait for the first group to discharge 2/3s of the way before moving to the next group. By cycling weapons groups you end up with a constant 15 damage beam weapon that only generates a constant flow of 15 heat. With enough heat sinks continuing indefinitely is not a problem. Output can also be adjusted with additional heat 2 time by firing more groups at once. If you mounted it on a hunchback this beam weapon would only come thru the right torso, leaving it with no spread and very concentrated damage.

BY holding down all 4 buttons in sequence and never letting do, the weapon will naturally follow into its pattern when it becomes ready to fire again, of course playing with one hand constantly mashed down is a silly way to play.

Given that your example used 12 Lasers in only 4 groups, could you provide a scenario where you would have 20 Groups, all active, on any given IS Mech...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 25 May 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[ManDaisy]

Given that this is a 12 medium laser example, you can see it already takes 4 groups to create leaving me with only 2 other groups. If I were playing a 100 tonner, you should be able to see where 6 groups would be limiting especially if I decided to have missile launchers, or mix those medium lasers into any other grouping with acs and whatnot. If I created a hybrid missiles system on top of that, that definitely will put me over 6 groups. So while you attack 20 as extreme I attack 6 as limiting.

Edited by ManDaisy, 25 May 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[ManDaisy]

A lot of people are forgetting its not alpha boating. Heat is vs Time not all at once. So you can have more weapons then your heat sinks can handle as long as you use em wisely. Clan/ Innersphere, doesn't matter. Just too many people are dumb and can only build in terms of alpha boating.

Edited by ManDaisy, 25 May 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

ManDaisy, on 25 May 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Given that this is a 12 medium laser example, you can see it already takes 4 groups to create leaving me with only 2 other groups. If I were playing a 100 tonner, you should be able to see where 6 groups would be limiting especially if I decided to have missile launchers, or mix those medium lasers into any other grouping with acs and whatnot. If I created a hybrid missiles system on top of that, that definitely will put me over 6 groups. So while you attack 20 as extreme I attack 6 as limiting.

I did not attack the 20, I asked you to show an example. Your retort makes me think you couldn't and what Mech are your going to get that comes with 12 Lasers, Missiles and AC's? The SwayBack variant to this point is the most Laser heavy and carries only 8...

How about a 12 group layout then...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 25 May 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[ManDaisy]

You want me to build a mech? Challenge accepted, look forward to a post soon.

[MaddMaxx]

ManDaisy, on 25 May 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

You want me to build a mech? Challenge accepted, look forward to a post soon.

Is that a Dev based soon ^™ or a real... soon?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 25 May 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[ManDaisy]

Mass: 100 tons Cost: 9,352,000 C-bills

Chassis: Standard (Innersphere)
Power Plant: Vlar 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Advanced Motive: none
Jump Jets: none
Jump Capacity: none
Armor: Standard (15 tons)
Internal: Standard
Cockpit: Standard
(Full arms, no actuators removed at all)
Armament:
HEAT: 70 max created /20 single heat sinks (8 not in the engine/ 12 within the engine)
Large Laser(LT)
Large Laser(RT)
Medium Laser(LA)
Medium Laser(LA)
Medium Laser(LA)
Medium Laser(LA)
Medium Laser(LA)
Medium Laser(LA)
Medium Laser(LA)
Medium Laser(LA)
Flamer(RA)
Flamer(RA)
Flamer(RA)
Flamer(RA)
LRM 5(LT)
LRM 5(LT)
LRM 5(LT)
LRM 5(LT)
LRM 5(RT)
LRM 5(RT)
LRM 5(RT)
LRM 5(RT)
LRM AMMO(1) (LT)
LRM AMMO(1) (RT)
3 single heat sinks (LT)
3 single heat sinks (RT)
2 single heat sinks (CT)


Arrays:

Heavy medium laser Beam cannon - Group 1, Group 2, Group 3, Group 4, 2 medium lasers each
Missile Hell Rainer - Group 5, Group 6, Group 7, Group 8, 2 LRM 5's each
Big Burst missile - Group 9, Group 10, 4 LRM 5 each.

Hell fire- flamer - Group 11, 4 flamers (chain mode)
Annoying drizzle - Group 12, 8 LRM 5s (chain mode)

Alphas:

Group 13, 2 Large lasers
Group 14, 2 Large lasers, 4 medium lasers
Group 15, 8 medium lasers,

Zombie: (In case of weapons being blown up):

Group 16, 4 mediums lasers (half the stack)
Group 17, 4 mediums lasers (other half the stack)

I admit not 20 groups but this is just restricted to level 1 tech.


Combinations:
Heavy Medium laser beam array + flamer array
Large laser alpha + Big Burst Missile

8 medium laser alpha, + annoying drizzle (4 cooling down)

Lotta ways to play it.

Edited by ManDaisy, 26 May 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[MaddMaxx]

Kudos and well done ManDaisy. I bow to any Pilot that can run and gun and remember what each of their 15 Groups contains and use them effectively.

I would suggest more Ammo though if you want to use the Missile Hell Rainer - Group 5, Group 6, Group 7, Group 8, 2 LRM 5's each and the Annoying drizzle - Group 12, 8 LRM 5s (chain mode) much at all.

Did we get a final confirmation on Chain Fire Mode?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 25 May 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[Mechteric]

6 really is more than plenty, truth be told I get by on 4 most of the time in MW4 and MWLL. Very very, madly rarely will I use 5 and 6. The is especially true if you can do like MWLL and set individual groups to chainfire.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 25 May 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[ManDaisy]

but not for me

[Gremlich Johns]

ManDaisy, on 25 May 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Well congrats to all you guys who can do without it, but the way I play I really tweak everything to the max so I really need maybe even up to 20. 6 weapons groups REALLY REALLY will limit me because I like use weapon combinations to make {proxy} weapons that that you could call "advanced weapons arrays" that usually dont have characteristics of any weapon that exist.


Example:

The Ultra-continuous-Gundam-Beam-cannon

This is not anime

3 buttons are sufficient. tweaking to use 6 or more just means you have OCD

Chain fire

[Vexgrave Lars]

I've only ever needed 3 for combat..
4th was for TAG/NARC...

[ManDaisy]

You guys are just scared... of the POWER! Seriously why is anyone against being able to have more weapons groups the 6? I mean you dont use em fine dont use em, but quit holding me back.

Edited by ManDaisy, 25 May 2012 - 12:09 PM.