53 replies to this topic

[Ptom]

For examples of Extinction: See Dragon, Awesome, and Jenner.

I'm not talking about adding abilities to the less used mechs that are gamebreaking like flat-out dps increases, armor increases, etc. But just little tidbits that would enhance the flavor of the role that the mech is supposed to play.

[Kaspirikay]

Nah

[Dukarriope]

The Dragon used to have Dragon bowling as its unique attribute but it still is the only heavy 'mech capable of breaking 100km/h (largest engine capacity).
The Awesome again has the most gigantic engine capacity and the most manueverability of the assault class (on par with some heavies), but both of these 'mechs take considerable skill to handle due to their attributes and weaknesses.

The Jenner on the other hand right now is completely outclassed by the Raven 3L and only has Jumpjets to boast over it. But even then, its jumpjets are utter weaksauce next to the Spider and can't be used for anything than crossing a little crevice. Over said Spider, it has thicker armor and weaponry, but without ECM it's not popular anymore.

Edited by Dukarriope, 26 January 2013 - 08:25 PM.

[Suprentus]

Some mechs do have unique attributes. The Centurion has a shield, for example.

The Dragon is fast, the Awesome is like a bridge between Assault and Heavy, and the Jenner...well...you're probably onto something there. It's anecdotal, but Jenners seem like they can take more punishment than Ravens. I know their max armor ratings are identical. Maybe more people just armor the Jenner more.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Kaspirikay, on 26 January 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Nah

This. I like some mech's being "inferior". Because nothing is more exhilarating than ripping out Atlas hearts in an Awesome. Or running down that 2D in a dragon and shoving your guass up his ***.

[hammerreborn]

Dukarriope, on 26 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

The Jenner on the other hand right now is completely outclassed by the Raven 3L and only has Jumpjets to boast over it. But even then, its jumpjets are utter weaksauce next to the Spider and can't be used for anything than crossing a little crevice. Over said Spider, it has thicker armor and weaponry, but without ECM it's not popular anymore.

A good Jenner pilot with the netcode fixed...ish should slaughter a raven everytime. A spider vs a 3l is a slaughter.

Lets see, what would do better vs the 3l, a mech that can have a 30+ point alpha, or the one with maybe 9-15 (on the D only) and half the armor.

I'm going to go with the Jenner on this one.

The spider right now is extinct until they make JJs better. Right now the only one that can really use them is the V with 12, and can't even fire from heights because of the center weapons only. The K and D are more manageable than the Jenners, but it doesn't feel like the difference it should be.


As for the awesome, the class based matching is what screws the awesome more than anything else. If getting an awesome on your team didn't mean the other team was getting an atlas there would probably be a lot more of them out there.

Edited by hammerreborn, 26 January 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

don't forget the catapults invisible side torsos and darn near 360 torso rotation
The Yen Lo Wang being able to actually aim it's AC/20 up and down
Same for the Cataphract 4X... has much better range of motion so can out gaussapult a gaussapult.

[Dukarriope]

hammerreborn, on 26 January 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

A good Jenner pilot with the netcode fixed...ish should slaughter a raven everytime. A spider vs a 3l is a slaughter.

Lets see, what would do better vs the 3l, a mech that can have a 30+ point alpha, or the one with maybe 9-15 (on the D only) and half the armor.

I'm going to go with the Jenner on this one.

Problem lies in the fact that the Jenner JR7-D only has at maximum one additional laser slot over the Raven-3L, and the Jenner JR7-F would match its firepower with 6 medium lasers but lack the sustainability due to heat. While the Raven 3L has an equal number of missile hardpoints as the JR7-D. But the Raven-3L on the other hand can carry Guardian ECM which means it can use streaks without any concern of being jammed versus the Jenner.

[RedMercury]

I like the idea, and you shoud put this in the suggestions forum, with some concrete examples of what special abilities you had in mind.


I for one like market and incentive based mechanisms that automatically correct for imbalances. From this approach, one way to make some mechs which are currently unused more popular is to set up a tracking system to see how often people use what mechs. Then make the mechs which get the least use give steadily higher cbill and Gxp bonuses until the trend is reversed.

This may be a little too beancounter-ish and boring. Alternatively, the mechanism can improve unpopular chasis on one or all of a few quantifiable metrics: secondary metrics (ie non canon) such as torso twist speed/range, turn/acceleration rate, headshot hitbox area, sensor range/nv or thermal image quality, resistance fo screen shake, and heat capacity.


Or perhaps, take an eaiser route and just add a new game mode: random stock mechs. Make the payouts substantial (heck, even without huge payouts, it would be a fun change of pace and popular with the canon crowd).

[Eddrick]

For some, the Mech they choose is purely a matter of preferance. For others, they choose thiers based purly on the Mechs preformance.

The full number of Mechs in the MechWarrior universe in very large. They liklyhood of some Mechs getting (For lack of better words) "Outdated". Is very likly to happen. There is also a very likly chance that a Mech easly gets ouclassed. Even based on what thier origenal purpose is. Some Mechs were even made for very situational purposes. Should they get special treatment? Why?

I see no reason for the Awesome to die out any time soon. In fact, the Awesome was made to replace the Striker. The Awesome may have it's drawbacks (Easy to hit torsoes. But, the Atlas has the same problem). But, it still has it's uses. For example, builds with it tend to be more stable then with the Stalker. Because, if you fully load the thing with weapons. It will not have such bad heat issues as the Stalker does. Farthermore, the Awesome-9M can go faster then of any Assult Mech we currently have (78 KPH). It is also one of the few Mechs that have a Heardpoint in the Head. An Energy Hardpoint for that matter. Perfect for mounting a TAG laser. The Awesome may be a "Nitch" Mech. But, some will find ways to make that "Nitch" work for them.

Don't consider a Mech obsolete untill you look at the thing as whole. Instead, of just part of it.

[Kreisel]

They've been saying for a while that they intent to eventually add little tid-bit to make all the Chassis feel more unique from each other besides just hard-points. Heck they said when YLW came out that the different arm/tosro behavior was an example of the kind of thing they planed to do to ALL variants eventually. But it's something that's more down the line, they had other things they wanted to focus on first. So it's coming, just gonna be a while.

Also lots of mechs already have different numbers of module slots.... unfortunately at the moment, most the ones with extra slots are the same ones being considered OP already cause of ECM (Once ECM is reabalanced and yes the devs HAVE stated they plan to rebalance it, just said nothing about how) then it should be thematically fitting for more electronic warfare based chassis to have the extra modules.

PreECM and the JJ over nerf the Jenner was largely considered better than the Raven in every way. It could be faster, had more weapon hardpoints and could mount JJ. remember the Jenner didn't get ECM because they thought it would outclass the Raven too much if it did, and that was public outcry BEFORE we knew how power ECM was actually gonna be. I expect once ECM and JJ finally get rebalanced the Jenner will regain a lot of it's lost popularity. Frankly speaking JJ or ECM should be a REAL choice, when they are properly balanced you should be thinking about WHAT you want your Light mech to do, and how you want it to play. The choice between Jenner and Raven should be a play style difference: Faster/More Maneuverable or sneaky and support/info gathering gear. Heck the 4x Raven having JJ and ballistic hard points really ought to be enough to make you seriously consider taking it instead of the 3L, based on the style of play your looking for instead of one option just being 'better'

Edited by Kreisel, 26 January 2013 - 11:06 PM.

[TheBlackRabbit]

I'm not finding the jenner F to be too outdated really. With a 6 medium laser alpha strike it can tear apart the rear armour on catapracts. Its mostly a heavy killer and not a light chaser now.

[Merky Merc]

Some mech variants are going to inevitably wind up outdated I would assume, that's just the way tech works and new mechs will do the jobs that current mechs do, but better.

That said as long as weaponry and whatnot are transferable I suspect MWO mech chassis will have much longer staying power than the TT mechs I would assume, if for no other reason than the aforementioned customization we have. Though I could be blowing smoke right now.

[MonkeyCheese]

I've been having a blast in my 9m awesome, and I have basically been driving nothing else the past 2 days. 85kph with speed tweak means it runs like a large heavily armored hunchback. With the max engine you don't really have the space for the firepower to go head on with a stalker or an atlas but u can easily out circle them and take out their backs.

[Mr Mantis]

[Rift Hawk]

Ptom, on 26 January 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

For examples of Extinction: See Dragon, Awesome, and Jenner.

I'm not talking about adding abilities to the less used mechs that are gamebreaking like flat-out dps increases, armor increases, etc. But just little tidbits that would enhance the flavor of the role that the mech is supposed to play.

My opinion is that the key to making some mechs not become obsolete, is by removing certain things that make that happen. Not by adding more.

For example:

My opinion is that most lights are obsolete because if they don't have streaks/ECM they aren't going to be used. These two items combined, make certain mechs far more powerful than their counterparts. Hence few people playing the non ecm/streak variety. If ECM was given to the mechs without missile hardpoints, I think you would see more of the other variants than you currently do. Right now they are just a path to get to Elite and Master level. They shouldn't be a stepping stone to your Mastered ECM/Streak light. They should be something more.

As far as dragons and awesomes go...people don't use them because they don't want to put the effort into them. They aren't brawlers and that is why most people avoid them. I have played with the dragon and found a good fit for it but you can't stand head to head with other heavies. Its not that kind of mech.

Edited by Imperial X, 27 January 2013 - 01:28 AM.

[Red squirrel]

Ptom, on 26 January 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

For examples of Extinction: See Dragon, Awesome, and Jenner.

I'm not talking about adding abilities to the less used mechs that are gamebreaking like flat-out dps increases, armor increases, etc. But just little tidbits that would enhance the flavor of the role that the mech is supposed to play.

LOL that are exactly the mechs I like to pilot.
I think they take more skill than many other (chees build) mechs.
But they are great if you know how to pilot them.

But I have to admit since ECM and JJ nerf my Jenner got a bit rusty....

[Tarriss Halcyon]

I pilot Dragons, and I do well with them. Most Dragon pilots use them like weaker Cataphracts, charging the enemy and trying their hardest to kill before they lose their ballistics, at which point they typically die.

Personally, I sit back and snipe from a moderate distance with a DRG-1N, using a Gauss Rifle and an ER Large Laser. Once I lose the Gauss Rifle, I still can fall back on the ER Large. And have killed with just that on a number of occasions. It's simply a matter of taste.

[Protoculture]

Ptom, on 26 January 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

For examples of Extinction: See Dragon, Awesome, and Jenner.

I'm not talking about adding abilities to the less used mechs that are gamebreaking like flat-out dps increases, armor increases, etc. But just little tidbits that would enhance the flavor of the role that the mech is supposed to play.

I played my Jenner yesterday and did alright. ECM Ravens are still OP, especially in little raptor packs, but that doesn't mean the others are completely useless.

[Kaspirikay]

In the end, people are still going to gravitate to the most effective mech and there will be those that are left out. I don't see how this will change things.