51 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

xRaeder, on 27 January 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Team tactics are very sparce in this game because of the random matchmaker. I saw a game today where one team had long range direct fire weapons. My team had 1 ECM Raven and 3 LRM boats. That one Raven ran around in the open and targeted an Atlas. That Atlas died nearly instantly as 6 LRM 20s hit him.

As far as tactics goes the ECM Raven used his R key. The LRM boats focused fire. The rest of the match was variations of the same thing.

Now how is this really fair to the other team that had no ECM? Is PGI going to have to program the matchmaker to now take into account the thousands of loadouts that are possible? Or only ECM so that each team at least has one?

In games like BF3 I could be defending a base, and a few tanks roll up. A buddy of mine switches to a loadout that has TAG, and I grab a rocket. That is tactics. The game allows you to adjust yourself to your enemy. This game really doesn't do that because of the random matchmaker.



How much cheating did you see in MW4 multiplayer. I think all of you seem to forget, or don't know, that all the MW games except MW1 had game modes with respawn. I remember doing LAN games with MW2 ffs, and we had respawn.

They were the most popular game mode and in my opinion would do this game a hell of a lot of good to have a similar mode. As I alluded to... even Counter Strikes' three round gameplay would be better than this.

Wait, I thought you said that long range play is not a valid tactic? So it IS a valid tactic now?

What you are describing is gamplay, not tactics. The tactic in question is using a spotter with LRM boats firing indirect fire. And it is dangerous if you get caught in the open.

It is obvious that you don't really understand the terms you are using, and that is hurting other parts of your argument that have more validity. (yes, more content is needed, yes there are some bugs they need to work through, yes matchmaking needs work)

As for why other people are not responding, the simple fact is you have not said a single thing that has not been said 100 times before. Come up with an origional thought and you might get more response.

[Greyfyl]

roguetrdr, on 27 January 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

I pug, play 4 and 8 mans. I get about the same win/loss in all three.

I call shenanigans.

[Livewyr]

xRaeder, on 27 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Something new and exciting and liked by the most predictable people...

Thank you for being you.


Was kinda hoping you would say you were leaving at the end of your rant...

[ProtoformX]

Damn, after I read "you have failed me waa waa waa" for the forth time I gave up on your post, OP. You're so dramatic. Get a grip and enjoy your free game. You have plenty of opportunity for community here, on the TS servers, or you could even reach out to people.. *gasp*... IN GAME!!!

[Trev Firestorm]

xRaeder, on 27 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Your game was flawed from it's inception. As soon as you copied WoT in every aspect you failed me, and you failed anyone interested in a true MW or Battletech game. Right now this game is a bad WoT clone. Everyone... deep down knows it.

Are you kidding, if they had copied even half of WoT the game would be far better (including of course the newish physics engine in WoT that makes the game actually good/fun finally)

[Greyfyl]

I played WoT for about 1 week. God is that a horrible game, yet there they are, millions of people playing it. I don't get it.

But on the other hand, PGI could have taken some notes from that game, instead of just winging it.

[anonymous175]

http://mwomercs.com/...-blog-0-reboot/
http://mwomercs.com/...munity-warfare/
http://mwomercs.com/...mation-warfare/
http://mwomercs.com/...3-role-warfare/
http://mwomercs.com/...e-warfare-cont/
http://mwomercs.com/...warfare-part-i/
http://mwomercs.com/...blog-6-mechlab/

As of late, there's alot of talk about tweak this tweak that.

The old site used to have that information listed in the Game link of the website.

How close are we still to the ideals from those Dev blogs?

[Corvus Antaka]

More constructive, less negative please.

[orion0117]

Uhh_Ohh forums are heating up again

[GalaxyBluestar]

op i can understand the pain but calm down and face reality.

this is a game that's going to be in developement for a few more years yet before anything complete is going to happen. that's the problem with creating everything from scratch and i thought you as a founder would've realised this. you're expectations are far too high it only takes a month or so of hanging around to tell the kinda progress that happens around here. just let it go and come back in 3-6 months time and you'll enjoy some changes.

[xRaeder]

Sprouticus, on 27 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Wait, I thought you said that long range play is not a valid tactic? So it IS a valid tactic now?

What you are describing is gamplay, not tactics. The tactic in question is using a spotter with LRM boats firing indirect fire. And it is dangerous if you get caught in the open.

It is obvious that you don't really understand the terms you are using, and that is hurting other parts of your argument that have more validity. (yes, more content is needed, yes there are some bugs they need to work through, yes matchmaking needs work)

As for why other people are not responding, the simple fact is you have not said a single thing that has not been said 100 times before. Come up with an origional thought and you might get more response.

Pressing the R key is one of the things I mentioned as being a PUG tactic. That is what that Raven did. The LRM boats then focused fire, another of the tactics I mentioned. Beyond that there is nothing here. You're confusing individual skill with team tactics. I for one never play with pre-mades and win more often than not, and usually end up with 3-4 kills.

There are four mechanics in this game that encourage team play. The R key, ECM, TAG, and maaaybe the capture points in Assault and Conquest. Depends on how lame you think base capture wins are.

Battlefield 3 has tons more of that. You can assist your team with spotting, you can tag vehicles, you can resurrect people, you can supply ammo, you can communicate with either VOIP or voice command shortcuts, you have commanders that actually matter, you can throw smoke (probably some I'm forgetting). In the FPS world BF3 is the penultimate example of a game designed with team play in mind.

PGI hasn't attempted to do anything like that. In fact you really can't do anything like that, not with these small scale battles.

I was the one all the way back in CB that first said these things. While everyone else was more concerned with bugs I was telling PGI that their game wasn't Mechwarrior. It still isn't. Simply the fact that MW2, 3 and 4 all had extremely popular respawn modes makes this game not like what has come before. Therefore Mechwarrior in name only.

I was the originator of these arguments about a year ago. I am merely repeating myself.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 January 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

More constructive, less negative please.

I've been constructive for nearly a year. Month after month of giving suggestions only to have the fanbois say "we'll quit if they add these things to this game."

Well it's nasty time as that seems to have more effect on the community than being nice and having your post buried.

der langsamere, on 27 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

cant argue the point, resorts to trolling. Good to see you agree with his points as you cant refute them



that would require lying. Or fanboiing which is pretty much the same imo

You have a bad definition of what trolling is. I can't believe people who basically exist on the internet don't have the terminology correct yet.

Trolling is if were to say your game sucks and leave it at that. I actually told PGI in this post and in numerous others why their game is bad. The WHY is the key. Without that you are trolling. Learn the terms please.

[GalaxyBluestar]

i wouldn't say respawns are the make and break for MWO but the lack of insentives to do anything else but the golden stick together and focus fire on these small maps is folly. we need match maker and bigger maps pronto followed by quick commands and a training ground for puggies to actually learn how to control a mech before entering battle.

those are the kinda things that do baffle me haven't been intergreated into the game before OB and still aren't with us 3 months later. i've been saying pgi's running out of time to convince people the game's worth while and it's running out fast.

[anonymous175]

Jackson Jax Teller, on 27 January 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

are they still DOING those? Or has the plan changed from that ideal

Some of it is on point like the Mechlab.

But some like Dev Blog 3/4 (Role Warfare), they are not there yet. Example is the scout role.

Pilot skills/modules and equipment seemed to have blobbed together and now it just seems to be something to take give yourself an advantage rather than actually contributing to the role.

Take a look at what the scout's was supposed to be:
Scouts

Scouts are the main source of information on the battlefield. It is their utilization of Information Warfare that is the key to the success of a team. Scouts need to get to the front lines as soon as possible in order to gather information as fast as possible. They should utilize fast moving BattleMech which allow them to do so and at the same time allow them the opportunity to escape should the need arise. Advanced scout players will need to use scout Modules to enhance their abilities to detect enemies and relay information. Suggested BattleMech Class: Light/Medium Suggested Modules: Radar and Detection enhancements Suggested Pilot Skills: Scout class skills
Makes sense.

So look at the "skills" they're supposed to have to fit that role.
Scout Role Skills:

• • Radar Range Increase – Increases radar range by 2% up to 5 times
  
• • Ghost Signature – Increases length of time before a signal fades by 2% up to 3 times
  
• • Vision Mode 1 - Zoom Vision – Allows the pilot to zoom 7x
  
• • HUD Detail 1 – Enemy Damage Level – LOD detail in terms of damage
  
• • HUD Detail 2 – Enemy Component State – Overall component criticality
  
• • Null Signature System – Allows the pilot to appear shut down for 5 seconds
  
• • Multi-Targeting – Allows the pilot to target multiple enemies up to 4 at a time.
  
• • IDF Accuracy – Narrows the AOE of IDF fire.
  
• • Critical Shot Indicator – Shares with nearby friendly BattleMechs the critical components of an enemy BattleMech

So if it was a scout role it makes sense but alot of those are already in game as modules but they can be taken by anyone with enough GXP.


Its as if all the modules available are just listed as a "General" tab, whereas some of those things need to be available in different classes, like scout, or assault etc.

Why else would I be taking sensor range in my Hunchback for any reason other than it was available?

And then theres the bigger problem of why even have scouts in the first place since 1) you go in knowing its a 15 min match 2) the map isn't that big and ends up in the same points of combat to even really need a scout. 3) Most light mechs are just harassers at this point in time.

Edited by Zeno Scarborough, 27 January 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[Jetfire]

Hard Assesment: The game needs 6 months minimum to be where it should be for Open Beta.

That said, it didn't get it for whatever reason, so expect the next six months to bring a lot of changes for the better. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[xRaeder]

And screw that man. If I didn't care like all the other people that aren't playing this game anymore because they were underwhelmed, I wouldn't even be wasting my time. But I grew up on Mechwarrior and I'll be damned if I'm not going to tell PGI what I think is wrong with this game's direction.

[Rokuzachi]

Zeno Scarborough, on 27 January 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Some of it is on point like the Mechlab.

But some like Dev Blog 3/4 (Role Warfare), they are not there yet. Example is the scout role.

*snip*

See, now that stuff sounds awesome. When you look at planned features like that it's both exciting, and disheartening because it makes the current game seem like such a skeleton.

[Jetfire]

xRaeder, on 27 January 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

And screw that man. If I didn't care like all the other people that aren't playing this game anymore because they were underwhelmed, I wouldn't even be wasting my time. But I grew up on Mechwarrior and I'll be damned if I'm not going to tell PGI what I think is wrong with this game's direction.

It doesn't matter how much you care if you can't accept nothing will happen immediately. The devs have a vision and they need feedback, but honestly the game is so bare bones at this point most of the feedback is on stuff that isn't even in the game yet. It gets pretty frustrating trying to wag the dog.

[Zolaz]

Yo, wall of text, calm down it is Beta. Im sure that you will be put into your perspective ability group later. So learn to play, join a corp, get on TS or go back to Hello Kitty Online. One of those options should make you happy.

[Nonsense]

It's really not about pug vs. premade, it's that (in non-8v8) you have complete newbies to the game and to the genre fighting alongside veteran FPS and MechWarrior players who know all the ins and outs of mech configuration AND can aim and use good tactics.

[Fake Inception]

xRaeder, on 27 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

PGI. Your game. It's not so good. It's not so good because of the nature of the battles that you put people in.

You have Premades vs PUGs.

Not a game goes by where there isn't an AFKer or a DC.

0.25 out 10 of the games I've played haven't been brawls at close range (yeah the ratio is that absurdly low). It's gotten so bad that as soon as I see a D-DC, or a C4, or an A1 I know exactly what hes carrying. He's carrying brawling weapons.

Your game was flawed from it's inception. As soon as you copied WoT in every aspect you failed me, and you failed anyone interested in a true MW or Battletech game. Right now this game is a bad WoT clone. Everyone... deep down knows it.

As soon as you thought that people like me would prefer to be randomly placed with people and not have a choice as to where to play you failed us.

As soon as you thought that Counter Strike was a good idea, when MW2, MW3, and MW4 all had respawn modes that were the most popular, you failed us. Hell... Counter Strike has better game modes then this game does. At least there it is best out of three.

See I never cared about the bugs. The only reason why I mention DCs is because it wouldn't be a problem in a game like BF3 or any game with server browsers and multiple lives. The AFKers that we complained about for months also wouldn't have been a problem. Get a HUD bug? Well just disconnect from the game and come back into the server.

See you spent all this development time re-inventing the wheel with a "smart" matchmaker when server browsers and BF3 Conquest mechanics would have solved all these problems, and been much easier to implement as it is built right into the SDK. You guys remember how long it took them to get 8v8s? Imagine what they could have accomplished with all that time.

And look at them now. There's hardly any 8v8s going on because ... see... the matchmaker you slaved over... it isn't so smart. Cheese builds all over the place. Now, laughably you have 4 mans "sync dropping" and Mods even telling people how to do it. How pathetic does that make you feel? That not even your successes are really successes.

People say this game has tactics. Sorry to break it to you. But it doesn't. Probably around 70% of the games played are played by random groups of people... the PUGs. PUGs don't do tactics very well. Especially with a game that has no VOIP or easy method of communication (voice quickmenu from BF3 for example).

For most games the tactics consist of three things. Stay together. Focus fire. Press the R key. THAT'S IT. If the majority of your players only practice three kinds of group tactics then your game has only three types of tactics. Sorry.

Your game will never do Battletech justice because you are always going to be constrained by this random matchmaker. You'll never be able to let us range over 20km of terrain and face an enemy battalion. Even ELO is a terrible idea because you are artificially segregating the community.

PGI. Let us play where we want. Give us more game modes. Then and only then will I consent to opening my wallet to you even more. I haven't spent a dime on this game since I purchased Founders. How far is that $120 going to take you do you think?

QFT bump