14 replies to this topic

[twibs]

Now I just had an eyeopening game.

We lost, not surprisingly as I was solo-pugging. I was in my RVN-2X, barely decent chassis but has to be XPed to get the 3L running.

I did 192 damage, not bad considering we got steamrolled something like 2-7 (had to have that one mandatory DC-farmer). I had one kill assist and nothing else, the crits just didn't roll my way. Despite my best efforts the one catapults whose CT was orange did not want to die to my several SRM6 volleys or med lasers.

Now after I died (was the last one standing) I see the end screen.

C-Bills 37300
Lost: 25000
Kill assist 7500
Damage done 4800

So low?

Xp 105
Lost 100
Kill assist 5

That's also kinda lame, nothing for damage?

Damage done is nothing... everything comes from kills and component destructions. So where does that leave lone last mech on the battlefield. Pretty much shafted.

So I realized that when I see my team losing 0-6, it's just better to disconnect and find new match, since the potential earnings from that game are somewhere around 5-10k, and that's IF I actually manage to push through the enemy blob and get at least one component destruction. If I don't manage that, I can expect at most 100 damage done under the focused enemy fire. That's like 2500 C-Bills. No thanks, I'd rather try my luck to get semi-competent team, how ever rare they are.

The current system doesn't reward well those decent players who manage to get good game, but their team just happened to wander of and die. (Yes, I did try to tell them focus targets and pull back once or twice)

Edited by Niko Snow, 31 January 2013 - 05:32 AM.

[senaiboy]

Luck of the draw with pugging unfortunately, as more weight is put on winning than playing (nothing wrong with that, makes it a bit more competitive). I don't see a good reason for one "good" player on an otherwise bad team should be singled out and rewarded disproportionately. It's a team game after all.

That said with ELO matching this will be less of an issue.

PS - I suspect you already know anyway, but TAG gives a good amount of XP (especially for non-ECM light mechs).

[twibs]

There's teams and the there's 'teams'. I don't see why I should be punished for horrible team while I did my best to help it.

The current reward for damage done seems something like this:
10 dmg = 250 C-bills
10 dmg = 0 XP

What I would like to see
10 dmg = 750 C-bill
10 dmg = 1 XP
Reduced C-Bill and XP from other sources to balance out the total in a good and/or very good match.

So in my decent match I would've been awarded whopping 14.400 C-Bills and 19 XP for my efforts. I think that sounds reasonable.

[senaiboy]

But it's not just about dealing the most damage in a game though. If scouts actually does what they're supposed to do, they won't be dealing much damage anyway, hence not earning much.

On the other extreme, you get LRM boats dealing 1000+ dmg, giving them 75000 C-bills just from damage alone based on your suggestion.

I believe PGI is trying to get a balance between rewards for damage dealing and other 'teamwork' acts.

Edited by senaiboy, 26 January 2013 - 03:14 PM.

[twibs]

Even if you do boat LRMs, I'm pretty sure you still need a nice team to get that 1k dmg match, LRMs still aren't "boat and get 1k damage", they do require some skill. Granted LRM tend to spread alot damage around, but I still stand by my point that 25 per 1 damage is still very low. As is 0 XP.

Perhaps 75 is high, but that was just a poke in the dark. It could just as well be 50.

[Furmansky]

For me the system is totally broken now. There was time for adjusting the system a bit there and a bit there, it was even preety close to golden middle. But they decided to totaly mess it up with taking R&R out. What you guys think they will do proper adjusting now? Guys... they are spaming hero mechs left and right, no maps, ECM works as intended?... and we are letting that happend ourselves. There should be a balance, I was there sticking with PGI after big incomes were nerefed cause it was unbalanced, wrong and boring, now its going other direction... It's unbalanced boring wrong and frustrating. Hey we have a new hero mech... it's all cool. Sorry for me being grumpy, but in my point of view the state of developement progress ( In its Beta stage ) is more directed to getting cash out of you than getting new proper content out and balance the game. I do trust it all goes to its place eventually, but the priorities are just wrong.

[senaiboy]

Fair enough, then again as you have implied even with a significant increase in rewards for damage dealt, you still won't get much if your team played badly. The only way to get a reasonable amount of XP and C-bills is to be in a team that's not steamrolled - hopefully this will happen less once matchmaking is in full gear.

@Furmansky
R&R aside (I do think it should come back), the current system actually works much better than before. You don't get as many suiciders, AFK-ers, or just plain timewasters because your reward is proportionate to what you do now. There is a grind, but without grind there won't be anything to look forward to, would there? It's the desire to have a new mech, a new weapon, a better build that keeps a lot of people playing.

It feels like your frustration is more directed towards the cosmetic additions the developers are putting up.. but how do you expect them to make money otherwise? Sure they have taken in the millions from Founder packages, but that's not providing any more income for them. And the people that design/develop these cosmetic stuff may not be involved with the game design at all in the first place.

[twibs]

senaiboy, on 27 January 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

Fair enough, then again as you have implied even with a significant increase in rewards for damage dealt, you still won't get much if your team played badly. The only way to get a reasonable amount of XP and C-bills is to be in a team that's not steamrolled - hopefully this will happen less once matchmaking is in full gear.

Well something is more than nothing, which I think it's pretty much now.

[nostra]

I feel like it's always pretty bad sportsmanship to just drop out once a game stops going your way (I have no problem with quitting out once you're dead though...spectating gets pretty boring). That said, i can see where you're coming from, the earning still feel very low to me. While I like what the devs did for new players (the first 25 games earnings thing); I still feel like unless you're paying out the *** for premium time and a hero 'mech combined, you're just not earning enough. Since I try to think it out canonically to help the game's "story," there's no way a merc gets paid a piddly 30,000 c-bills to risk life and limb in a pitched battle against a (presumably) equally powerful force. I'd say a losing game should net you 80,000 c-bills minimum, a winning game should net you upwards of 150,000 to 300,000 before premium and hero 'mech percentage bonuses- which I wouldn't say is excessive because yeah, frankly, merc regiments or great houses would likely pay well over 500,000 c-bills for the likes of Yen-Low-Wang in their ranks.

[Furmansky]

senaiboy, on 27 January 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

@Furmansky
R&R aside (I do think it should come back), the current system actually works much better than before. You don't get as many suiciders, AFK-ers, or just plain timewasters because your reward is proportionate to what you do now. There is a grind, but without grind there won't be anything to look forward to, would there? It's the desire to have a new mech, a new weapon, a better build that keeps a lot of people playing.

It feels like your frustration is more directed towards the cosmetic additions the developers are putting up.. but how do you expect them to make money otherwise? Sure they have taken in the millions from Founder packages, but that's not providing any more income for them. And the people that design/develop these cosmetic stuff may not be involved with the game design at all in the first place.

Am I frustrated? Possibly yes, but I still can discuss and hear to reason. Im not frustrated that we had christmass dolls for 1000MC, not frustrated that we are flooded with new hero mechs. What did hit me is breaking the core ideas since begining of this game. It was said that nothing will be availible for MC only that won't be availible through grind, and I was cool with that, I bought Founders cause I belived that. I got 25% extra c-bills, different skin and nothing more. We couldn't get anything else cause it would mean I can get something different for MC that others can't so I got that D(F) not even D-F. But now we have totally differednt chasis every month for MC only and no one sees any problem? Why not give a chance for grinders to get it as well then, delay the C-Bills realese by 6 months charge extra c-Bills for it and take the income bonus out of it. That would be fair. Taking out R&R out of game didn't solved farming problem at all, if it did prove it to me cause when I play really in 90% of the games someone drops. Are those farmers? Can't really say but we couldn't say that beefore as well. I did once a test and dropped at start, after game was done it earned me 50.000. some games when I play full round I go sometimes below 40.000, 30.0000? Im sorry but No, R&R didn't solve anything.
I paid for legendary package with hope that devs will stick to their original ideas and views... How much they got? remind me? was that not enough for a game in this state??? it should get them to hire extra people, and give them time to finish the game... but it looks we achived the oposite. They got greedy, for me it looks like they hired extra marketing guys and money making masterminds. Do they will earn more? oh yes but remember that we will pay the price, and we will not pay fair sum for amount of content released. We have plenty of mechs, hero mechs, collours, some dolls, and? Where are new maps? Oh 2 are comming in next two months... guys are we serious? I know dolls colours and etc... are different people but with amount of cash that was given already to this project, things like core aspects of this game should have priorities. So yes forgive me but I am frustrated, cuse I am scared they are doing just next WOT clone at the moment, and this game will not beat WOT on the global market. My brother got Elite, and we played a lot at the beginning, it has potential, but something badly changed during the beta... But hey I'm just uninportant whiner with just over 100 posts, who would listen to me You know that guy that will write only 1 post is more viable than us dont you

[sycocys]

OP - you got 1 kill assist. No spots, tags, destruction, kills or salvage which is how you make money and xp.

Furmanski - you surely couldn't have believed that they'd operate under a completely unsustainable business model did you? There simply needs to be some income for the game to run, and that means there needs to be things to actually purchase.

[Furmansky]

sycocys, on 28 January 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

Furmanski - you surely couldn't have believed that they'd operate under a completely unsustainable business model did you? There simply needs to be some income for the game to run, and that means there needs to be things to actually purchase.

Well you can call me naive, but I didn't have any reason not to belive in it. Looking let say at how LOL is doing, and amount of cash we had thrown at devs ( which was more than they aparently expected ) I was fairly convinced they will stick to original plans. You know, I belived in it, was I lied to?
I want this game to rise up, and I am still happy to pay more in the future, but I'm worried about how this is lining up. If none sees any problem how things start to be changing then maybe I'm wrong and just ignore me.

[sycocys]

LOL has an operating income of some 10's of millions if not 100's of millions a MONTH. I want to highlight the month part because that's just off of subscription fees.

I can understand why you might see it as a failure on their part, but I don't think offering something of a variant with a bonus or customizing items is at all out of bounds. There needs to be income to keep the game alive into the future. They may well have plenty of cash put away to fund until full launch, but they will still need an operations budget to push beyond that, expand servers, and continue development into the future/deal with unforeseen setbacks.

Is some of their pricing model meh? Maybe, but most of their target audience for purchases is 25-40 year old professionals with incomes that afford spending on these things. They haven't released anything that makes a pay-to-win situation which was their primary goal with the f2p model, and in that I think most all of us can agree is a commendable accomplishment.

[Furmansky]

sycocys, on 28 January 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

LOL has an operating income of some 10's of millions if not 100's of millions a MONTH. I want to highlight the month part because that's just off of subscription fees.

Well yes, thats what I meant... has LOL heroes, or items in game that can't be purchased through grind, other than cosmetic ones? I never said that MWO shouldn't have those. I even said Hero Mechs are OK, but let the grinders get to them eventually as well, do a 6 months delay, kill 30% C-Bill Bonus on it and price it reasonably higher than standard variants. And every one would be happy. I do not deny PGI Income, it wasn't I that stated that money couldn't get you more than C-Bills, only will get you there faster and will let you get more eye candy. It's not something I made up or something. It's not my problem that I can't afford something I paid already and I still have money tos spend. My problem is someone will not be able to even if it was promised to... and PGI still would cash in well which LOL is a great example. No I don't think hero mechs are OP as well, and we are far away from P2W, can't deny that, but it's still not fair to promise one thing and deliver another. We agreed to this by buying founders that were no different than standard variants, only different skin and bonus income... nothing else. And now I am told that I can actually get Mechs that are different for MC only? With overall commercialization even showing up in mechlab it is getting annoying... When I start the game firs I see is GIVE ME MORE MONEY.... LIKE ME ON FACE CRAP AND THWATTER.... OK put it all in launcher, but live the in game to BT Universe an immersion, this aggressive advertising is getting on my nerves... I didn't needed that bulls**t before I payed for Founders pack. Well but I went Off topic there so let finish it. Cheers

Edited by Furmansky, 28 January 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[sycocys]

The achievements system I think should be a step in the direction you are looking for. Some systems like that will just take time to unfold and maybe they won't unlock full content, it will give players more options.

I'll only buy into what I happen to find some value in, which is simply the best way to show them where their players stand over the longer run so that they might adjust things. Personally I think there should be things that are restricted to pay-only as long as they don't upset the balance of the game. Being that 95% of everything is available without an investment I think they really have a decent f2p model set up. Paid bonuses essentially equate to extra c-bills and if you like a different variant that's right in league with everything else.

Simply I think it was a change of necessity in order to get to a place where the f2p business model could thrive.