8 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

I really think there's an issue with damage detection with PPCs and ER PPCs.

Tonight I've tested 3 different builds quite a bit:

Cataphract with 2 Gauss, 3 MLs = FP rating of 45, average damage ~425 per match
Cataphract with 4 ER PPCs = FP rating of 40, average damage ~207 per match
Cataphract with 4 PPCs = FP rating of 40, average damage ~129 per match

Given the nature of the weapons, PPC's vs Gauss, they both function as 'ballistic' type rounds so if one is capable of hitting enemies with one type, they should have similar results with the other. The only significant differences between PPC and gauss being total damage per round hit and weapon class (energy vs ballistic). Range isn't significant because that's something the pilot can control, meaning, is the round being fired within an 'effective' range or not.

My skill being fairly consistant, it's reasonable to expect approximately similar results when using gauss vs PPC's but I don't.

The difference between PPC and ER PPC damage is most telling, especially considering that in all cases, I was firing almost entirely at targets at the mid to outer range of the weapons (doing my best to avoid 'close in' differences of them).

So what gives? What am I missing? How is it I'm getting 103, 207, 153, total damage per map. If the weapons are hitting in range, and are doing 'full value', I shouldn't have any non-divisble by 10 number for my total damage.

Explanations?

What have I missed?

[Cest7]

You probably aren't leading enough. Until they have proper state rewinding implemented in the netcode, you have to aim for the wandering hitbox

[Nekomimi]

I've noticed sometimes the paper doll wouldn't even light up or show damage after I've hit someone with PPCs.

[Dimento Graven]

Jax514, on 18 February 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Hey,

keep in mind that collision damage registers as 1 every time you collide with someone. Also PPCs generate a lot more heat and have a smaller cooldown actually preventing from firing as often as the gauss rifle.

They generate more heat, and their cool down is shorter, not longer than the gauss.

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Another point is that PPC shots travel at different speeds than a gauss round so if you are going back and forth between the build you should have to compensate for the difference. Which may be another issue if you are playing the mechs in the same manner.

Yes, excepting I'm playing games where it looks like I'm hiting twice as much with 4 PPC weapons than I am with 2 gauss weapons, and yet, my games using gauss weapons ALWAYS out damage the games using PPCs. The twin gauss setup means that my 'damage density' is 30 points (15 being the 3 ML's), but with my quad PPC setups, my damage density is 10 points higher. If I'm hitting as much as my client leads me to believe, I should be doubling, even tripling the damage output of my gauss setup, but I'm not.

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There's also still some hit detection issues which are being improved with the netcode fixes, however sometimes shots will not register damage. On fast moving mechs generally if you lead your shot and still miss it WILL register damage and not have any damage decals.

Yes, known issues, however, that would mean that you have a specific weapon type that is suffering more from those hit detection/net code issues than other types.

Again, the 'type' of round fired between a gauss and a PPC is still a 'ballistic' charge. One happens to be charged particles, the other a nickel ferrous iron slug.

If it actually LOOKED like I was missing, I wouldn't be here, but the fact is, most of the time when I score a low game it "LOOKS" like I've actually hit 80 percent of my shots. So in a game where surviving to the end means I've fired some 100 rounds of PPCs, I should have a damage generation of somewhere around 800.

The CLOSEST I've been able to get to that was one game with standard PPC's, and a score of 663.

Again, due to wanting to keep 'mechs 90+ meters away from my 'mech I never fired at anything, or even let anything get closer than 90 meters, and I never fired beyond max range, so where are these odd numbered damage totals coming from?

It's very annoying.

I wish PGI would put in an actual game log I could review to figure this out.

[Nonsequitur]

What is strange is that it seems I have to lead the target quite a bit more than a gauss even though the PPC's projectile speed is much faster (1200m/s vs 2000m/s). Taking into consideration both weapon specs, the PPC should be more accurate and do more damage over time than the gauss... but it isn't. Yes, there are times when the PPC seems uber good but it's just not as consistent as the gauss.

[Traigus]

I've encountered some of the same damage oddities too. Using a Cicidia last night with a PPC (had MGs I wasn't using).

I kept coming out of matches with damages ending with 3 and 5 (45,83,63 etc.) when all of my damage should have been divisible by 10.

Are PPCs doing splash damage?

[Max Liao]

I was considering making a post similar to the OP, but I wanted to wait to see what was fixed with this patch. Maybe this is all a moot point now.

A friend of mine and I tested (as best we could w/o screwing over our teammates) a couple of things and noticed some ... anomalies.

Issue #1:
I run a 5 LgLas Cataphract. He runs a 3 UAC/5 Muromets. In 'theory' I do 45 points of damage while he does 15/30. Yet he cores me faster than I can core him. Within the same time frame and even considering double fire this should NEVER happen. This tells me the devs need to re-work the reload times for UAC/5, or they need to be more accurate in the 'firepower' description in the MechLab.

Issue #2:
I hit a Jenner - where neither of us were moving - for the entire duration of a 5x LgLas hit in the rear. Even considering hitscan damage, - of which there should not have been because he didn't move, I didn't move, and my aim didn't move - what Jenner can take 5x LgLas in the back at close range? His armor turned orange ... not his internal structure, his armor.

I hit him a second time. This time he was running away, and I'm sure the damage was hitscanned, but still, the better part of the hit was in the same spot and the rest should have been close. I still didn't pierce his armor; and the rest of the damage counted as splash against every location except the head.

10 LgLas to a Jenner's behind and he runs off with just a flesh wound?

Issue #3:
I used to be able to 'eyeball' Atlases pretty consistently. Starting about a month ago, I couldn't tell you where the Atlas cockpit is. An un-moving Atlas -vs- an un-moving me. I aim at his eye (yes, the correct one - but for the sake of argument I tested this on both) and I register my hit on his torso and arm? Sayyyy Whaaaaaat?

I have a 24" monitor.

I fired about 1" ahead of a moving Cataphract and scored a hit. I was unable to repeat this the same match, but did it again in another match. In both instances, aiming directly at the 'Mech was 'hit-or-miss.'

I fired about 1" behind a running spider and scored a hit. I was able to repeat this feat when I killed him. When I aimed at him no damage was registered.

I was aiming for the Left Torso of a damaged Atlas. He was moving, but not that fast - even for an Atalas. My lasers showed they hit the left torso, and a spectator on comms with me saw the lasers hit the left torso, yet the shot registered on hit Right Arm.

I was aiming for the cockpit of an Awesome, certainly not an impossible task. Graphics and aim indicate that I hit the cockpit (or at the very worst, the Center Torso). Damage registered across his legs.

[Snib]

I just had a stationary head-to-head shootout with a Centurion. It took 7 shots of 4xLL to his center torso to kill him. That's 252 damage. Took 4 shots (144 damage) to make his armor even orange. All while both of us were stationary. Something's wrong.

Edited by Snib, 19 February 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

One other thing I think I've noticed is that when someone is doing "well" with PPC/ERPPC's they're not chain firing them, they're firing at least 4 at once.

If what I think I'm seeing is correct, it's an oddity that still speaks to damage registration (as firing all weapons at the same time increases the chance that all fired shots will hit the same location, as opposed to chain firing where the shots will arrive in series and have a chance for 'mech deflection, source/target movement, etc., to affect hit location).