29 replies to this topic

[FrupertApricot]

Been playing all day in a Jenner, the poor ecmless ********. despite 3/400 average damage and doing some dcent play, I have yet to win a single game today. Because ECM is simply the greatest factor you can possibly bring to enhance your teams chance to win. it only costs 2 tons, and its only on a few mechs. That is the simple reason why this game is broken. PPCs, TAG, new modules, all this insane effort that barely lets you kind of circumvent a 2 ton module. Should just copy MWLL's radar programmign already because none of this makes any sense in a balance, tt, competitve, or fun sense.

[Viper217]

The ECM module is 1.5 tons (2 crit slots) actually. I agree it needs to be changed a bit though.

[Khobai]

You can actually predict your chance to win fairly easily...

chance to win = 100% * (a / b ) * (x / y)

a = bads on enemy team
b = bads on your team
x = ecm on your team
y = ecm on enemy team

Edited by Khobai, 01 February 2013 - 05:07 PM.

[silentD11]

Khobai, on 01 February 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

You can actually predict your chance to win fairly easily...

100% * (a / b ) * (x / y)

a = bads on enemy team
b = bads on your team
x = ecm on your team
y = ecm on enemy team

ECM has become a LOT less important with the reduced lag shield on lights. Now that you can hit the ******** every time and easily you don't need to rely on streaks or LRMS which require no aim or talent to use. You see a LOT less of it. It's still important and you still need a few mechs with it, but you don't need to stack it the way you did and it no longer makes light mechs god.

[Khobai]

Quote

ECM has become a LOT less important with the reduced lag shield on lights.

Nah its still important from preventing LRMs from killing your whole team. Without ECM your team is basically LRM bait.

[Ranek Blackstone]

silentD11, on 01 February 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

ECM has become a LOT less important with the reduced lag shield on lights. Now that you can hit the ******** every time and easily you don't need to rely on streaks or LRMS which require no aim or talent to use. You see a LOT less of it. It's still important and you still need a few mechs with it, but you don't need to stack it the way you did and it no longer makes light mechs god.

This. I have fun blasting the legs off ECM lights that try to harrass my team. Usually I see 2-3 ECM mechs on the enemy team. A raven and maybe 2 DDCs. Either way my Cataphract has no problems with ECM mechs.

[Arumi Ornaught]

Khobai, on 01 February 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

You can actually predict your chance to win fairly easily...

chance to win = 100% * (a / b ) * (x / y)

a = bads on enemy team
b = bads on your team
x = ecm on your team
y = ecm on enemy team

8 bads on both teams and 8 ecm mechs on both teams means there is no chance of you losing?

[Khobai]

Quote

8 bads on both teams and 8 ecm mechs on both teams means there is no chance of you losing?

if you have 8 bads on your team you really shouldnt be playing this game.

[Arumi Ornaught]

Khobai, on 01 February 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

if you have 8 bads on your team you really shouldnt be playing this game.

What if someone just wants to have fun?

You can never have 0 bads or ecm on your team either from the same formula.

[MischiefSC]

Sorta.

I've gone from my first 500 games in mechs with no ECM to a mech with ECM.

My win/loss rate hasn't changed appreciably. It's improved based on my playing better but nothing I'd tie to ECM.

Having multiple ECMs on your side though? Significant advantage - IF people take advantage of it.

This is where premades have a good edge. When you're packing ECM but the rest of your team wanders off out of range and gets smoked by LRMs it's useless. If they all stay together in ECM range and the enemy can't even target you not to mention LRM or streak you without TAG or ECM of their own, that's another matter.

ECM is a force multiplier. If you've got multiple ECM units on your side who act together and a team that is at least aware that ECM only helps if you're within range then the impact is dramatic.

When you've got people who wander out of range, stand on a ridge in sniper-shot location and just watch as the heavens rain down and PPCs scatter them into component particles then, well, it's not that big a deal.

[Trufast]

My impression is that people have gotten used to it, and have developed playstyles that revolve around ECM. I've won battles against teams when ours had no ECM, and been beaten when ours did. Granted, ECM is still a really powerful thing, but not as horrifying as it was. And a lot of people use tag now.

[IamTheEggMan]

No, the deciding factor has always and will always be teamwork. Skill and equipment still get trounced by superior teamwork.

[Sug]

IamTheEggMan, on 01 February 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

No, the deciding factor has always and will always be teamwork. Skill and equipment still get trounced by superior teamwork.

Take that teamwork into an 8v8 with no ecm mechs on your side and see what happens.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

People need to stop confusing ECM with the ability to hit lights.

All that means is you ran into a bad light pilot who tried to go toe to toe with you.

It has nothing to do with the power of ECM. If that light pilot spent time strafing and playing more of a defensive role using his ECM to help his team, you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

ECM is still the best item in the game. Period.

[DocBach]

Hammerborn, you need to redo your poll in 8 man drops and see how ECM/to win ratio works there.

[Zero Neutral]

FrupertApricot, on 01 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Been playing all day in a Jenner, the poor ecmless ********. despite 3/400 average damage and doing some dcent play, I have yet to win a single game today. Because ECM is simply the greatest factor you can possibly bring to enhance your teams chance to win. it only costs 2 tons, and its only on a few mechs. That is the simple reason why this game is broken. PPCs, TAG, new modules, all this insane effort that barely lets you kind of circumvent a 2 ton module. Should just copy MWLL's radar programmign already because none of this makes any sense in a balance, tt, competitve, or fun sense.

You are incorretly identifying the problem.

ECM is not the issue, SSRM are the issue. Think about the times that you've died, was it because of ECM? No, because ECM is not a weapon, ECM does not kill you.

You died because there currently exists a massive problem in short range combat against ECM equipped mechs that use SSRM. Any light mech pilot that goes out in a mech that does not have both ECM and SSRM are at a disadvantage because SSRM are a weapon system that can hit at a 100% rate while moving at full speed and torso twisting. SSRM are also able to make very high angle turns in order to hit their targets. Against other fast moving lights, this means a hit in the back.

Any light mech pilot who chooses a mech with ECM and without SSRM are at a disadvantage because they cannot use SSRM against other light mechs. Any light mech pilot that chooses a mech with SSRM and without ECM is at a disadvantage because their SSRM will be useless against another light mech with ECM and/or SSRM. This creates a problem that limits the choices for light mech pilots.

The combination of ECM and SSRM are a huge problem right now because a short range counter to ECM does not exist aside from another ECM. Therefore, by choosing a light mech without ECM and SSRM, a pilot puts themselves at a disadvantage automatically because lasers can miss, but SSRM cannot miss. SSRM reduce the speed defense aspect of piloting light mechs to zero by always hitting, performing insane high angle turns, hitting rear armor against fast moving targets, and etc.

I hope that this better helps you to identify the true problem which is the lack of a short range counter to ECM, and the ability for ECM equipped light mechs to monopolize the use of these, "Magic Missile," SSRM.

[DocBach]

ECM is a huge issue beyond allowing someone to use Streak missiles. ECM totally destroys coordination between teams - if you are playing in an already uncoordinated PUG match, its even worse. Teamwork is the key to this game, and ECM pretty much makes it impossible to organize groups that aren't on voice comms.

[FrupertApricot]

thats the thing. my game was mostly heavies and assaults. the enemy team had 3 DDC's

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I just wish PGI would address problems without introducing new problems.

Streak SRM's are a problem. Ways to fix it? Increase cycle time, decrease damage, increase heat, create larger missile spread, increase lock time, require new lock each shot.

Pick one or two of the above, apply them, see what happens. If Streaks still broke, tweak current changes or add another of the above list. Continue until Streaks are fixed. Done.

Same thing with LRM's.

Instead they introduced an overpowered band-aid item which just made it all worse instead of fixing the underlying issues.

It's really a stupid way to do it. And I don't like calling devs stupid. But whoever is making the design decisions (I'm guessing it's one person, it always is in the end) does not understand how to deal with problems in these types of games.

[Josef Nader]

People are learning how to handle it. I haven't noticed ECM making a lick of difference lately. Now that we can hit the speedy little anklebiters, their sneaksiness helps them very little.