11 replies to this topic

[topgun505]

It must be frustrating (and hard for the Devs to maintain balance) when nearly any mech that mounts multiple missile hardpoints ends up being turned into Derpmechs (Mechs that load up on nothing but SRMs and then zombie walk straight into a target and pull the trigger so they can't miss). The Catapult was the first of these but you can be sure it won't be the last. You can bet your bottom dollar the Trebuchet will be one of the next.

In order to keep boating in check, assist in game balance, and keep mechs in their intended roles I propose the following.

Change missile hardpoints in mechlab to these:

SR Missile
LR Missile
Any Missile

So if you have a mech that is intended for long range direct and indirect fire support and it has a large number of missile hardpoints you make some or all of those LR Missile hardpoints so that only long range missile racks can be loaded on them. This allows the devs to give the players latitude to vary the size of the missile racks on the unit but doesn't permit it to be turned into a Derpmech. Likewise for something that is meant to be a short range brawler, put on SR Missile hardpoints so it can't be turned into a LRM-spammer.

The Any Missile hardpoints allows the devs the capability to give players SOME hardpoints on which either kind can be mounted so you don't have to be totally restrictive.

[Rushin Roulette]

Care to give a build for the A1 catapult whcih istn one of your socalled "Derpmechs"? It has 6 missile hardpoints but not enough weight to effectively carrry long and shortrange missiles without running into weight problems due to the fact that it has to load 2 seperate sets of missiles.

Yes it is possible to make and A1 SRM and LRM combination Mech... but it runs into ammunition trouble relatively fast or it sacrifices damage for less armor (suicide at best) heat problems or a smaller reactor.

Your suggestion sounds good in theory, but it is completely unuseable for the game adn would seriously gimp the Mechlab possibilities.

[topgun505]

The A1 initially comes with TWO LRM-15 racks. Frankly I think it was a huge mistake to give it 6 missile racks to begin with. Not really sure how they translated 2 weapons = 6 hard points. I understand they probably did it just to differentiate it from the other existing chassis.

In any case.

Yes for that example I would say 2 LR missile hard points. 2 SR missile hard points and 2 Any missile hard points. This prevents it from being utterly boated in either direction.

Look at ANY mech in CBT lore. None of them are built optimally. All could use some improvement in some manner. So you have a mech in that case that has a mix of short and long range but doesn't have a crap load of ammo for either. You know, that sounds rather balanced to me.

Edited by topgun505, 29 January 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

topgun505, on 29 January 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

So you have a mech in that case that has a mix of short and long range but doesn't have a crap load of ammo for either. You know, that sounds rather balanced to me.

I would personally call that a gimped mech which no one would ever in their right mind would ever use. The problem being, that once the ammunition has been depleted, the mech is completely unable to defend itself. The main reason why many are boating weapons is to more effectively utilize the weight and space constraints by not needing to carry 2 or 3 different types of ammunition.

[MechWarrior849305]

Then, why don't change energy HPs to PPC-point, ML-point, LPLs-points; or ballistic HPs to AC20-point, Gauss-point, or maybe MG-point?

Get rid of that RVN-3L!!! Let his missile points be Long Ranges (Well, with this tweak I agree with the OP, but only with this)

[Syllogy]

topgun505, on 29 January 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

The A1 initially comes with TWO LRM-15 racks. Frankly I think it was a huge mistake to give it 6 missile racks to begin with. Not really sure how they translated 2 weapons = 6 hard points. I understand they probably did it just to differentiate it from the other existing chassis.

In any case.

Yes for that example I would say 2 LR missile hard points. 2 SR missile hard points and 2 Any missile hard points. This prevents it from being utterly boated in either direction.

Look at ANY mech in CBT lore. None of them are built optimally. All could use some improvement in some manner. So you have a mech in that case that has a mix of short and long range but doesn't have a crap load of ammo for either. You know, that sounds rather balanced to me.

If you insist on TT rules, then I will insist that all weapons have a standard 10 second cool-down timer.

[topgun505]

One of the complaints I hear regarding the splatcat is that it is hot, and it suffers from an ammunition shortage. But I see people running it all the time so I don't see ammo being a major concern for a mixed hard point mech. I'm sure you could manage 2 LRM 10, several SRM 4 or 6 with a passable amount of ammo to be effective.

@Syllogy. Where in my post did I say we had to stick to TT rules? Please do not put words in others peoples mouths. Thank you.

Rushin Roulette, on 29 January 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

[size=4]

I would personally call that a gimped mech which no one would ever in their right mind would ever use. The problem being, that once the ammunition has been depleted, the mech is completely unable to defend itself. The main reason why many are boating weapons is to more effectively utilize the weight and space constraints by not needing to carry 2 or 3 different types of ammunition.

Edited by topgun505, 29 January 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[focuspark]

Syllogy, on 29 January 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

If you insist on TT rules, then I will insist that all weapons have a standard 10 second cool-down timer.

My new sig!

SRM CTPL are a ton of fun, especially the 6x SRM6 and the 4x SRM6 + 2 MPL are my favorites. Remove them and you're removing a very viable, very fun platform.

I don't see how allowing a Catapult to have short-range weapons is breaking something.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

Ever taken 6 SRM 6's to the head?
Kinda sucks.

Now, that said, people who pilot those can't do jack-sh!7 beyond 270m, so just have your teammates avoid them or clip the ears.

Seriously, it's kinda sad how many people aim for the side torsos on an A1 catapult. Take off the ears and it's useless. (For those thinking, for whatever reason, I'm using 'ears' in the literal sense, I mean 'ears' as in 'arms'.)

[topgun505]

I didn't suggest removing the Cat as it is I was just using it as an example for the point of the thread, which at this point appears to have been brushed aside.

So, back to the point. What are the thoughts or concerns for the multi missile type hard points?

Picture the Longbow 12R for another example.
4 LRM-15s. If the devs gave it a similar treatment as the Cat it would have 12 missile hard points.

Twelve.

How long do you think it would be before you saw someone stick SSRMs into all of those slots?

If you are a dev and you want this mech to keep its canon role of long range support, there is no way this would happen with the current system. It would be SRM-boated and it'd be a monster.

With the missile type hard points you could restrict it to 6 LR and 6 SR, which is still a lot, but at least it is not brutally game breaking.

I'm just saying it would help the devs keep the system balanced.

[focuspark]

Spirit of the Wolf, on 29 January 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Ever taken 6 SRM 6's to the head?
Kinda sucks.

Now, that said, people who pilot those can't do jack-sh!7 beyond 270m, so just have your teammates avoid them or clip the ears.

Seriously, it's kinda sad how many people aim for the side torsos on an A1 catapult. Take off the ears and it's useless. (For those thinking, for whatever reason, I'm using 'ears' in the literal sense, I mean 'ears' as in 'arms'.)

Ever take 4 PPC to the head, same issue. I've done both to people and I've take twin Gauss. Again, nobody is complaining about a pair of Gauss rifles which do the same as 4 SRM6 but focused damage at immense range.

topgun505, on 29 January 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

I didn't suggest removing the Cat as it is I was just using it as an example for the point of the thread, which at this point appears to have been brushed aside.

So, back to the point. What are the thoughts or concerns for the multi missile type hard points?

Picture the Longbow 12R for another example.
4 LRM-15s. If the devs gave it a similar treatment as the Cat it would have 12 missile hard points.

Twelve.

How long do you think it would be before you saw someone stick SSRMs into all of those slots?

If you are a dev and you want this mech to keep its canon role of long range support, there is no way this would happen with the current system. It would be SRM-boated and it'd be a monster.

With the missile type hard points you could restrict it to 6 LR and 6 SR, which is still a lot, but at least it is not brutally game breaking.

I'm just saying it would help the devs keep the system balanced.

Generally speaking, all the Heavy Mechs have 6 hard points. It's a balancing thing. CPLT-A1 got six missile hard points because it needed 6 hard points and the A1 is designed as a missile only mech.

I don't see a single mech with 12 hard points, so I think you're grasping at straws here to make a point. Best to trust in the devs to keep the game balanced than to assume they'll completely drop the ball. They'll make mistakes, but their livelihoods are based on the fun (and therefore balanced) nature of this game.

[Skyfaller]

The longbow would be loading only 12 SRM2s if that was the case.

Firing 6 SRM6's nearly caps your heat in one shot even after you stuff your mech with DHS.

The solution that is needed is simply to have the firing delay on the tube launchers increased and have missile flight path be determined ONLY by the first swarm that is fired.

That way, an LRM20 being fired from a 6-tube launcher would have the first 6-missile pack fired fly normally and the following 2 swarms & 2 solo missiles firing not instantly after the first but 1 second after each other.

That would make 3 , 6-missile salvos flying 1 second apart... and when the first salvo begins its dive on target so do the other 2 behind it.

Result? Missile boating large launcher in small tube launcher not only ends up firing spaced-out damage (dilutes and reduces chance of spike damage) but also increases the chance (due to 1s (~150m) distance between salvo from same tube/launch) of the following 2 swarms hitting a cover object (or another mech) since they are diving from a lower altitude and homing in.

Ergo, they could hit a low hill or friendly mech on the way down.