40 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 January 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Yes teh TRO also states that the Spider generates less That when jumping, and is directional in jump. That the The Clint has a Sloane Targeting System that is more accurate than others. That certain mechs weapon systems are prone to jamming. That the Thunderbolts Large LAser is unusually powerful. And yet... none have any rules mods, because it was pure fluff. That said, some minor rules deviations keep things interesting, but the obvious bandaid BS of the PPC is the rock to ECMs scissors, because people hate ecm AND people don't think PPCs are worth their heat currently (well, MOST people) unles you play cheesewhiz 6ppc overheat stalkers.

Actually there ARE ancillary rules for weapons and equipment from different manufacturers... these rules are typically used in the Roleplaying game and added in for flavor.

These rules however are... far from the "offical" Tech level 2 rules that govern most tournaments. And are, as I said, used for flavor.

[Tennex]

Since the current ECM does not follow BT rules. It only makes sense that the counters to it does not follow BT rules

We could keep spiraling out of control. Or we can fix the problem at its roots. Nerf ECM

Edited by Tennex, 30 January 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[Mercules]

I wouldn't even call it a Nerf. FIX is more like it. Fix it to have effects similar to the rules of TT including the Double Blind rules.

[Tennex]

Jade Kitsune, on 30 January 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

I think something many people need to understand is PGI is starting with the base tabletop rules as the "Starting point" and branching out. What they're idealy trying to do is capture the "Feel" of Battletech battles that we read about in the novels.

Thats wonderful when they arn't breaking the game. But look what taking matters into their own hands did to ECM. they've obliterated balance between electronic warfare items.

a monkey can see how much better ECM is for 1.5 tons. than any other items of the same value.

Edited by Tennex, 30 January 2013 - 07:04 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

If you haven't been able to be effective an a mech without ecm VS mechs with ECM by this point, you're just bad at the game Tennex.

We work with what we have, adapt and overcome.

That being said, is ECM an issue? Sure, it does way too much for it's weight. add another half ton and it would STILL be too good.

Regardless of that, it's how it is.

*sighs* I remember the days when you delt with what you were given, and worked within the system... I remember when you played a game and MAYBE... MAYBE you'd get a patch... and sometimes that patch would be mailed to you on a disk...

Perhaps the problem here really, is matter of perspective... is ECM as it sits, honestly where PGI wants it? If so, then maybe we should just deal with it, grow up and move on.

[Tennex]

Jade Kitsune, on 30 January 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

If you haven't been able to be effective an a mech without ecm VS mechs with ECM by this point, you're just bad at the game Tennex.

We work with what we have, adapt and overcome.

where does that assumption come from? and how does it excuse ECM for being far better than other items of 1.5 tons. (that is the definition of balance) ECM is not balanced.

[Orzorn]

Jade Kitsune, on 30 January 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

If you haven't been able to be effective an a mech without ecm VS mechs with ECM by this point, you're just bad at the game Tennex.

We work with what we have, adapt and overcome.

That being said, is ECM an issue? Sure, it does way too much for it's weight. add another half ton and it would STILL be too good.

Regardless of that, it's how it is.

*sighs* I remember the days when you delt with what you were given, and worked within the system... I remember when you played a game and MAYBE... MAYBE you'd get a patch... and sometimes that patch would be mailed to you on a disk...

Perhaps the problem here really, is matter of perspective... is ECM as it sits, honestly where PGI wants it? If so, then maybe we should just deal with it, grow up and move on.

And I've already done that. We switched to direct fire solutions because using LRMs is just playing into ECM's strengths. I'm not going to carry a partially dead weight weapon around, let alone one that moves at 100 m/s.

Just because I can play around ECM doesn't mean I have to like it. We played around lag shields, but we didn't like it. We played around LRMs dropping at 90 degrees from the sky, but we didn't like it.

Not liking something doesn't mean I can't play around it. Being able to play around something doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Tennex]

Orzorn, on 30 January 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Not liking something doesn't mean I can't play around it. Being able to play around something doesn't mean I have to like it.

and it doesnt mean it balanced either.

[Ngamok]

Egomane, on 30 January 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

There is no special effect to PPCs in the tabletop game.

My guess: Many players wished for a special effect for PPCs, other complained about ECM being to strong. Now we get both topics adressed with one adjustment.

PGI is following the tabletop rules where possible, but they never said, that those rules are a holy bible to go by. They will adjust and tweak whatever neccessary, to give us an enjoyable gaming experience.

http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

[AlexWildeagle]

Egomane, on 30 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Pure fluff! Not represented in the rules.

But makes a heckofalot more sense then PPCs just magically affecting one system.

[Viper69]

Lets just try it out and see its edfects on game play. It could be boon or bust but lets give it a chance.

[Tennex]

Viper69, on 30 January 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Lets just try it out and see its edfects on game play. It could be boon or bust but lets give it a chance.

your right we need to try it. and its nice that PPCs are getting the added effect. nice bit of fluff.

i hope that doesn't mean they call it a day on ECM balancing though.

AlexWildeagle, on 30 January 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

But makes a heckofalot more sense then PPCs just magically affecting one system.

- ppcs effect electronic equipment
- ppcs effect only ECM
- therefore ECM is the only meaningful electronic equipment in this game.

by the powers of deduction. they pretty much just said ECM is the only relevant electronic equipment. and by further poweres of deduction; more powerful than any other piece of electronic equipment and OP.

and yet they still refuse to balance it relative to other equipment

Edited by Tennex, 30 January 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[AlexWildeagle]

Viper69, on 30 January 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Lets just try it out and see its edfects on game play. It could be boon or bust but lets give it a chance.

Well since I hardly use the ECM spider it really has no effect on me. I just think they should do something that makes a little technical sense. If PPCs are going to affect an electrical system it should happen to all mechs, not just an ECM module.
What would make more sense. Well if they insist on it, it should randomly affect one electrical system with a crit affecting more then one system. That would make sound technical sense.

[Viper69]

Tennex, on 30 January 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

your right we need to try it. and its nice that PPCs are getting the added effect. nice bit of fluff.

i hope that doesn't mean they call it a day on ECM balancing though.



- ppcs effect electronic equipment
- ppcs effect only ECM
- therefore ECM is the only meaningful electronic equipment in this game.

by the powers of deduction. they pretty much just said ECM is the only relevant electronic equipment

I dint think it will stop there but there has to be a starting point. Cant finish a race without first getting in it. I would rather they test fixes one at a time to reach a goal than to go whole hog and over kill something.

[AlexWildeagle]

Tennex, on 30 January 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

your right we need to try it. and its nice that PPCs are getting the added effect. nice bit of fluff.

i hope that doesn't mean they call it a day on ECM balancing though.



- ppcs effect electronic equipment
- ppcs effect only ECM
- therefore ECM is the only meaningful electronic equipment in this game.

by the powers of deduction. they pretty much just said ECM is the only relevant electronic equipment

and yet they still refuse to balance it relative to other equipment

Doesn't matter what you want to call relevant. The ECM module is one...one of many electronic packages a mech has. If ECM can be disabled, then so can targeting or radar. There is no magical isolator.

Edited by AlexWildeagle, 30 January 2013 - 07:40 AM.

[Tennex]

AlexWildeagle, on 30 January 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Doesn't matter what you want to call relevant. The ECM module is one...one of many electronic packages a mech has. If ECM can be disabled, then so can targeting or radar. There is no magical isolator.

i don't think you understand my point.

i'm saying that it SHOULD effect all equipment. but because the devs say it onlly effects ECM, they are pretty much saying ECM is the only equipment that is OP and should be acknowledged as the all powerful electronic equipment. while all other equipment can be ignored because they suck so much

Edited by Tennex, 30 January 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Viper69]

AlexWildeagle, on 30 January 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Well since I hardly use the ECM spider it really has no effect on me. I just think they should do something that makes a little technical sense. If PPCs are going to affect an electrical system it should happen to all mechs, not just an ECM module.
What would make more sense. Well if they insist on it, it should randomly affect one electrical system with a crit affecting more then one system. That would make sound technical sense.

Except ecm is the dominant electronic device. What I mean is a lot of electrical and sensor systems are boosted to basically create a lot of sensor noise. So if a device is amplifying and using a lot of electronics to maintain an ecm bubble maybe its systems are also sensative to the incoming electrical interference. Who knows. If you like i personally wouldnt mind if my 6ppc stalker had a marginal chance to completely shut a mech down or kill your life support too, those are systems along with weapon controls.

Also who is to say they wont start adding effected systems if no ecm is present, we dont know.

[Ngamok]

Tennex, on 30 January 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

i don't think you understand my point.

i'm saying that it SHOULD effect all equipment. but because the devs say it onlly effects ECM, they are pretty much saying ECM is the only equipment that is OP and should be acknowledged as the all powerful electronic equipment. while all other equipment can be ignored because they suck so much

Because if PPCs affected all equipment, then people shooting them will pretty much cause their own ECM effect since they are scrambling all electronics. Makes sense, ECM for all because at this point in the game, that's what we need.

[Viper69]

People for the longest time called for ppcs to be better somehow. We are getting that. Again just try it and see if they add more systems. It could be the interference effect is op and they adjust that too.

Ngamok, on 30 January 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Because if PPCs affected all equipment, then people shooting them will pretty much cause their own ECM effect since they are scrambling all electronics. Makes sense, ECM for all because at this point in the game, that's what we need.

Its possible through fluff that you could say your mechs systems are shielded from the frequency your weapon emits. Not beyond the scope of imagination.

[Yokaiko]

Viper69, on 30 January 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

People for the longest time called for ppcs to be better somehow. We are getting that. Again just try it and see if they add more systems. It could be the interference effect is op and they adjust that too.

LOL No PPCs are still going to suck.

You will be able to shut down the ECM on a D-DC.....whoopie, shutting down a D-DC is pretty easy already, just kill it, they are big easy targets.


Maintaining an acceptable rate of fire with PPCs when you can't maintain a 300m standoff......THAT is something of a trick.

I couldn't keep 4 LLas on an Awesome down in the realm of reason heatwise without stripping missile launchers.