18 replies to this topic

[Father Christmas]

A suggestion to keep players interested in continuing and experimenting with weapon types.

I have been fighting close to 800 battles now, and actually I’m growing a bit tired of this – properly because I’m a PUG. But there must be a way to keep the gamers, to let them have a “carrot” once in a while.

I the previously versions of the Mechwarrior world, a carrot could be a scavenged weapon from a fallen enemy or even an entire battlemech – damaged of course, but still a big prize.

• I suggest that you let the winners win one item chosen by random (a weapon, equipment or ammo from the battlefield, even an entire damaged mech (as a rare “drop”)). They must of course be of the types that were used by the losers of the match.
  
• It could be tweaked by letting a weapon that were destroyed in the match - be so damaged that its un-repairable, and need to be replaced. – perhaps a 5-10% risk on each destroyed weapon.

This would spice up the game and let people try other types of weapon and mechs, something that they otherwise might not do because it cost c-bills.

Edit:
The idea is not, what is won - is lost by the loser. The drop must not be to vast, it would spoil the fun, but if a player e.g. play 10 games - he/she might win some ammo and few weapons (the more exp. weapon are more rare).
I know that there could be some kind of farming - join and commit suicide/ die fast - but perhaps that should be a part of the equation, the longer you live the bigger a chance for a big win.
But this is something for the developers to battle with. Your chance should not be a question of how many kills, be course it’s the team that wins - not the individual.

Edited by Father Christmas, 31 January 2013 - 12:44 AM.

[The Cheese]

While I like the idea of droppable items, I can see this kind of system being abused. It would take "sync-drop pug-farming" to a new level. Worse still, it's an extra incentive for people to fudge their ELO metrics in order to play against less skilled opponents with the aim of getting easy loot. Even if the drops were awarded to both sides.

It's one thing to farm NPCs in an MMO, but when the farming is done entirely on real people, well, I can't imagine those people sticking around long.

I like the idea of perma-broken weapons, but I'm kind of a glutton for punishment (I'd love to see R+R come back with 100% refit costs). I can't see this going down well, at least with match earnings the way they are right now.

Edited by The Cheese, 29 January 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[Mazgazine1]

Perhaps not a full item drop, but parts of items you can build maybe?

I really think a TF2 system may work well for this game in the long run..

How else are they going to introduce clan tech without an "upgrade" button??

Disconnecting and other penalties should result in on rewards.

[Hotthedd]

Spoils to the victors only. Salvage from the 'mech's that you kill or destroy components from only. Chassis salvage only possible if you personally did 50% or more damage to the 'mech (Players cannot lose their 'mechs). This, coupled with repair/re-arm/replace would definitely add to the immersion for me.

[Father Christmas]

Hotthedd, on 29 January 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

Spoils to the victors only. Salvage from the 'mech's that you kill or destroy components from only. Chassis salvage only possible if you personally did 50% or more damage to the 'mech (Players cannot lose their 'mechs). This, coupled with repair/re-arm/replace would definitely add to the immersion for me.

Understand you, but then there will be fewer scouts, or scouts that mainly are built for killing and not using Tag and NARC. I think when you support the team - it’s the team that get the salvage, and everybody have a share.

Otherwise - it will unbalance this game - a game with vast potentials and a impressive graphics.

[Eddrick]

I would rather this game stay as far away from luck based as possible. I stopped playing RPGs because my skill is far better then my luck. I can shot fairly well in a First Person Shooter on a good system. But, in RPGs, I can have 70% accuracy miss five times in a row out of ten charges. Needless to say, my luck in RPGs bites me in the rear when I need it most and I get good luck when I don't need it.

I would rather depend more on skill then luck.

[Hotthedd]

Father Christmas, on 30 January 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

Understand you, but then there will be fewer scouts, or scouts that mainly are built for killing and not using Tag and NARC. I think when you support the team - it’s the team that get the salvage, and everybody have a share.

Otherwise - it will unbalance this game - a game with vast potentials and a impressive graphics.

I play a scout frequently. I have many games where I have multiple kills, and usually do the most damage to the enemy scouts. OTOH I also have many games when I turn a corner to find 8 cloaked 'mechs ready to focus me into oblivion.

But I do get your point that not all 'mechs are designed for being high DPS, and the salvage system should reflect that.

[Bobzilla]

To stop farming, damage values could be scaled for weight class or firepower, or xp gained from that mech.
Like 50% damage from an assult with an alpha of 100 would be equal to 17% damange from a light with an alpha of 33.

Also instead of the weapon lost, with RnR gone, just have a 100% repair cost to weapons that were 'won' by the other side. Kinda puts RnR back in. Could be applyed to structure,armor,ammo and equipment if the chance to win/lose was lower based on the higher cost of the item. You'd win a lot of armor, and rarely get an xl engine.

[Roland]

Earlier in beta, we had non-trivial salvage rewards for winning, and had to pay repair bills for fixing mechs.

The result was that lots of folks who lost most of the time cried a lot, because they weren't making any money, while folks who were winning were sitting on mountains of cash.

I agree with the ultimate motivation, as I prefer to have matches mean something, but you will have a hard time balancing it. Lots of folks will support the idea of winning stuff... but those exact same folks will rage against the idea of actually losing anything.

[DocBach]

I think random drops and different tiers of weapons with bonuses or even just tweaks of current stats, like a Magna 3 medium laser that had a slightly delayed firing time, but a little effective range would make this game a whole lot more interesting, harder to boat the same exact weapon, and more rewarding to play.

[Hotthedd]

Roland, on 30 January 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Earlier in beta, we had non-trivial salvage rewards for winning, and had to pay repair bills for fixing mechs.

The result was that lots of folks who lost most of the time cried a lot, because they weren't making any money, while folks who were winning were sitting on mountains of cash.

I agree with the ultimate motivation, as I prefer to have matches mean something, but you will have a hard time balancing it. Lots of folks will support the idea of winning stuff... but those exact same folks will rage against the idea of actually losing anything.

I do not think people should actually LOSE anything (aside from the C-bills required to repair equipped items) Make sure that 100% repair to an item does not exceed its resale price, and the economy will work out fine.

[Stringburka]

I think this could work, but the chances need to be kept low enough that "farming" isn't really interesting - it should be a random "oh, hey, I got something" that more awakens an interest than actually constitutes a monetary interest.

I think a system could be something like this:
When you get salvage, you now only get 75% of what you got before.
The last 25% are doubled and added to a pot.
Every match you win, there's a 2% chance of a drop (1/50)
The drop is a random item that was equipped by a destroyed enemy mech during the match, and that does not exceed your salvage pot. Your salvage pot is reduced by the value.

So say you get an average of 40k salvage per match normally. Instead, you get 30k salvage and a pot of 20k per match.
After say 30 matches you've gotten 1200k salvage and have a pot of 600k, and say you got lucky then and got the random drop - then it picks a random item that was equipped by an enemy mech that is worth less than 600k, say an LRM20 (worth 500k).

You get that LRM-20 and your pot drops to 100k.

Of course, the salvage pot wouldn't be visible by the player, it'd be completely "under the hood".

Basically, this would mean that every once in a while you get a random item for 1/2 price. It's not a major cash boost, but if you got say an LRM-20 and are otherwise not that rich (say, not premium) that might spark an interest to test fitting that into your HBK-4J and test something new. Or if you sell it, you get back exactly what you would have gotten with the current system (250k)!

So it wouldn't increase/decrease the amount of cash gotten in the long run, unless you use the random item. You can "farm" but it won't make more sense than it does currently.

Edited by Stringburka, 30 January 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[Roland]

Hotthedd, on 30 January 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

I do not think people should actually LOSE anything (aside from the C-bills required to repair equipped items) Make sure that 100% repair to an item does not exceed its resale price, and the economy will work out fine.

Dude, people freaked out and cried when the repair costs were only a trivial chunk of an item's cost.

[Hotthedd]

Roland, on 30 January 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Dude, people freaked out and cried when the repair costs were only a trivial chunk of an item's cost.

Dude, people freak out about EVERYTHING the devs do. If it were up to me, a death in the game would send a minor electrical shock through your keyboard .

People freaked out about R&R, people freaked out about NOT having R&R, people freaked out about LRMs, SRMs, ECM, etc.

I think it is a given that no matter WHAT the final decision is on R&R, people will freak out.

[MQ9 Reaper Predator Drone]

good idea

[Father Christmas]

There will always be unhappy gamers that want more – even me – I want/wish for more all the time.

But instead of just complaining/crying, I try to argue/ deliver some constructive criticism, and finally suggest solutions – like this post.

It’s not possible to make everybody happy, you will end up with a ulcer, if you try.

My main suggestion are still, that you sometimes need a Carrot, a bonus, a surplus, above what you get today – something that will make your day!

If you as a player calculate with a somewhat steady income in form of a bonus –it lost its purpose, it must be something that all players experience, and not something that happens seldom, but the good salvage (not ammo, armor, heatsinks and alike) in form of engines, mech chassis, LRM20, ERPPCs, Gauss, should be rare – random distributed among the entire team. But if you in one out of e.g. 30-40 matches could win a ERPPC or 60-80 matched win an engine – it shouldn’t ruin the economy. It’s just important that it doesn’t affect the “daily” economy. Otherwise it won’t be this carrot.

Roland, on 30 January 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Earlier in beta, we had non-trivial salvage rewards for winning, and had to pay repair bills for fixing mechs.
The result was that lots of folks who lost most of the time cried a lot, because they weren't making any money, while folks who were winning were sitting on mountains of cash.
I agree with the ultimate motivation, as I prefer to have matches mean something, but you will have a hard time balancing it. Lots of folks will support the idea of winning stuff... but those exact same folks will rage against the idea of actually losing anything.

I sorry that i didn’t experience this, would have loved it.
but perhaps the developers should (if they not already do) evaluate who it is that do the winning, what player type it is. A game like this , that I consider a AAA, will always attract all types in the beginning:

• those who need speed, fast win and big prizes (mostly very young players – no offence intended)
  
• the team players who primarily are experienced gamers who seek more than just the kill
  
• the “hardcore Battlemech gamer” who play the game due to sentimental reasons and a pure love to the gametype.
  
• And so on..

IMO Those who mostly are doing the winning, are young players who seek the speed and continuously bigger and better prizes. They grow tired of a game fast and seldom plays it more than a month or so. (The type that should play Hawken instead). They do a lot of noise, but generally don’t want to deliver – and they aren’t good costumers.

My suggestion (hope that I didn’t offend anybody) is to please the long-term players, the team players, the hardcore battlemech gamers, and the many newcomers that experience the battlemech universe for the first time and are taken in by it all.

Edited by Father Christmas, 31 January 2013 - 01:58 AM.

[xengk]

How about a random loot system similar in other Free2Play MMOFPS?

Where after a match, all player get a chance to randomly receive a weapon, Cbill or mech.
Say, each player in the losing team get 25% chance to randomly get something.
player in the winning team get 40% chance to randomly get something.
player with Premium Time get +10% to existing their chance.

Also, to keep the mechbay from overflowing with weapon and equipment, I suggesting having permanent destruction for weapon and equipment.
http://mwomercs.com/...nt-destruction/

Edited by xengk, 31 January 2013 - 02:41 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Dude.....
Seriously...item drops in MWO ?!?

While your Item decay would be a nice thing towards more realism (in a sense of making merc buisiness) I think salvage oparations shouldn't be done during match but like already be done by getting some kind of Salvage bonus after the match.
Items are easy to buy in the shop (a separate shop would be nice indeed) and the R&R can basicaly be done like it was once implemnted but in a more userfriendly and more sophisticated and detailed manner.

[Stringburka]

The Basilisk, on 31 January 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

Dude.....
Seriously...item drops in MWO ?!?

While your Item decay would be a nice thing towards more realism (in a sense of making merc buisiness) I think salvage oparations shouldn't be done during match but like already be done by getting some kind of Salvage bonus after the match.
Items are easy to buy in the shop (a separate shop would be nice indeed) and the R&R can basicaly be done like it was once implemnted but in a more userfriendly and more sophisticated and detailed manner.

No we're not talking about stuff lying around on the ground and you bending down and picking it up, we're talking about salvage bonuses! xD

Otherwise, poor cicada!