379 replies to this topic

[Ilwrath]

PANZERBUNNY, on 01 February 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

This entire thread is a troll against sanity and responsible gaming, perpetuated by people who have very little understanding of what makes a long lasting game.

Here's a hint: Pandering to scrub whining about people dropping with their friends, having a good time and wanting to take that away isn't the best place to start.

Just let those groups of friends drop against other groups of friends. Then you can have one huge friends party.
Casual players are not interested in providing entertainment for you and your friends.

[Sifright]

Mister Blastman, on 31 January 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

At the same time, most 4-mans don't like having an easy match, either.

Bollocks I play an awful lot on comstar and one of the things I can tell you for certain is that most people are looking for easy games.

When the 8 Man team queue was implemented to give 8 man premade vs 8 Man premade matches almost every one shifted back to 4 man groups after a day or two because they hated getting stomped by better players.

people ARE looking for easy matches.

it doesn't help that a lot of the people in premades are individually not great players its only their greater coordination than pugs which lets them win. when matched against people with the same coordination they get rolled.

That being said my preferred game type is either pugging or full 8 man.

[Novawrecker]

Ilwrath, on 01 February 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

Casual players are not interested in providing entertainment for you and your friends.

Casual players are dying to other casual players that organize themselves (and I'm talking PUGs). Stop blaming pre-mades, 4-man, 8-mans, or what other pre-grouped format. Stop hiding the blame to what it really is: lack of organization gets them killed, yet they STILL do nothing about it to improve that. Instead, they choose to finger point.

Edited by Novawrecker, 01 February 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Casual players can stick to console games if they aren't here to play against people, thereby "entertaining" themselves and their opponents.

To be honest, it seems that casual players have more fun making excuses as to why they are "casual" instead of digging into the game.

Excuses like, "I work and am busy. I can't find a Clan or group to play with".

I mean, these people are beyond help if over a few weeks or months they can't idly chatter with people in TS while blasting mechs apart.

As a lone wolf PUG that is exactly your purpose, to entertain me and is proven with the filler you will become for 12v12.
I suppose they figure out that the damage of the some stray filler lone wolves won't impact the match results as much as 8v8 would.

Can people opt out of getting dumped into those matches? Time will tell.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 01 February 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Bollocks I play an awful lot on comstar and one of the things I can tell you for certain is that most people are looking for easy games.

When the 8 Man team queue was implemented to give 8 man premade vs 8 Man premade matches almost every one shifted back to 4 man groups after a day or two because they hated getting stomped by better players.

people ARE looking for easy matches.

That did actually happen.

[Ilwrath]

Novawrecker, on 01 February 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

Casual players are dying to other casual players that organize themselves (and I'm talking PUGs). Stop blaming pre-mades, 4-man, 8-mans, or what other pre-grouped format. Stop hiding the blame to what it really is: lack of organization gets them killed, yet they STILL do nothing about it to improve that. Instead, they choose to finger point.

I have zero problems noticing premades when I play.

[Sifright]

Ghogiel, on 01 February 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

That did actually happen.

Yes it did and I hated it because I found the 8 man games great fun and it's almost impossible to get a group together for it now.

[Novawrecker]

PANZERBUNNY, on 01 February 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

Just like in paintball, that solo dude running around trying to be Rambo is a detriment to his team and rarely if ever beneficial.

Agreed. And not matter how upset that Rambo player gets, he has no right to complain when it was all his fault. The problem is, in an online environment, said players like take a much dumber approach by complaining, crying it's broken, OP, or ruins the game. Sadly, no amount of code can fix that level of "stupid".

Ilwrath, on 01 February 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

I have zero problems noticing premades when I play.

The questions then remain: If can notice pre-mades. Can you also notice when your PUG team is disorganized vs. an organized one? Are you part of the problem and finger point, or part of solution of rising up, organizing, and taking steps to win the match with your team?

Edited by Novawrecker, 01 February 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[Mazgazine1]

Another one?

You want a game to fail? Make a TEAM GAME, with no teams in it.. Awesome.

I'm being pretty consistent here - ITS REALLY REALLY EASY to join a random TS3 or Mumble group..

Yes, and in game voip solution would be nice (C3 does NOT count for crap).

[Rippthrough]

armyof1, on 31 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

with the winning team having ECM and LRM while the other team have neither and just getting beat up.

If it's an ECM and LRM combo, it's either not a premade, or they're terrible at the game, or they're just having a laugh with random builds, because LRM's + ECM = death against anything but morons stood out in the open.

[Ilwrath]

PANZERBUNNY, on 01 February 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

Casual players can stick to console games if they aren't here to play against people, thereby "entertaining" themselves and their opponents.

The console mentality is more fitting on the premades. They want it easy.

PANZERBUNNY, on 01 February 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

To be honest, it seems that casual players have more fun making excuses as to why they are "casual" instead of digging into the game.

Casual can mean many things. Like not being interested in interacting with the lore nerds or worse.

PANZERBUNNY, on 01 February 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

As a lone wolf PUG that is exactly your purpose, to entertain me and is proven with the filler you will become for 12v12.
I suppose they figure out that the damage of the some stray filler lone wolves won't impact the match results as much as 8v8 would.

I don't think its bad to fill in as long as there is premades on both sides really and I am sure many of us filler players will outperform lots of the premades players. Most of the premade players are not good enough for the 8 man que you know.
What about you?

We don't have the 12 man here yet so we don't know how that will be.

[PANZERBUNNY]

The fact is, if they cater and pander to the cries and claims of how
"unfair" things are so these tourists can have their own playground without big bad teamies ruining their game experience, it won't have the staying power we want it to have.

Those people aren't loyal players/customers and will be switching to whatever "cool" or new game hits the market to distract them.

They neutered us so we had to drop with 4's or 8's. Now people want 4's gone. (But it won't happen.)

I've run out of small violins for those people.

[Sifright]

Novawrecker, on 01 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Agreed. And not matter how upset that Rambo player gets, he has no right to complain when it was all his fault. The problem is, in an online environment, said players like take a much dumber approach by complaining, crying it's broken, OP, or ruins the game. Sadly, no amount of code can fix that level of "stupid".



The questions then remain: If can notice pre-mades. Can you also notice when your PUG team is disorganized vs. an organized one? Are you part of the problem and finger point, or part of solution of rising up, organizing, and taking steps to win the match with your team?

I must have missed the part where 'solo players' on the internet can shout really really loudly and get heard by players potentailly a thousand miles away to give info.


Yeaa..... nice comparing apples and alligators. I mean both have carbon in them its the SAME THING

[arkanis]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Bollocks I play an awful lot on comstar and one of the things I can tell you for certain is that most people are looking for easy games.

When the 8 Man team queue was implemented to give 8 man premade vs 8 Man premade matches almost every one shifted back to 4 man groups after a day or two because they hated getting stomped by better players.

people ARE looking for easy matches.

it doesn't help that a lot of the people in premades are individually not great players its only their greater coordination than pugs which lets them win. when matched against people with the same coordination they get rolled.

I don't play 8-man but that's exactly what I feared when they implemented 8 vs 8 and judging by the volume of posts, the situation now is the same as it were before 8v8, we can conclude that the proposed "premade solution" was unsuccessful
Thanks for the insight from someone who use to play 8vs8

[PANZERBUNNY]

Ilwrath, on 01 February 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

The console mentality is more fitting on the premades. They want it easy.




Casual can mean many things. Like not being interested in interacting with the lore nerds or worse.



I don't think its bad to fill in as long as there is premades on both sides really and I am sure many of us filler players will outperform lots of the premades players. Most of the premade players are not good enough for the 8 man que you know.
What about you?

We don't have the 12 man here yet so we don't know how that will be.

So now casuals are afraid to go onto TS because they MAY encounter lore nerds or unwanted players?

Seriously, just...stop. Just stop with the excuses. That's all I hear regarding people not wanting to put a small amount of effort into improving their gaming experience drastically.

There's no helping some people. They are just miserable id iots.


P.S More people are playing 8-Man groups since they changed it. It took a while, but it's more populated.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 01 February 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ilwrath, on 01 February 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

I have zero problems noticing premades when I play.

neither do I, and when the end credits pop up it's fairly obvious who the ones with good teamwork are.

[Novawrecker]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

I must have missed the part where 'solo players' on the internet can shout really really loudly and get heard by players potentailly a thousand miles away to give info.

You also must of missed the part that it's not f'ing rocket science to type (for example:): " <grid #> defense", or "lights kappa/eps, all else Theta" as match launches, or "DDC in G5", even a "H3" is even of a hint to look at that loc for a target, in the heat of battle.

... or is typing too hard for you?

Edited by Novawrecker, 01 February 2013 - 05:25 AM.

[Lykaon]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

it doesn't help that a lot of the people in premades are individually not great players its only their greater coordination than pugs which lets them win. when matched against people with the same coordination they get rolled.

Then please explain why I could take any of the dozens of players I run premades with and show you a wall of screenshots of their scores as solo pugs blowing the rest of their team out of the water?

When I pug and lose I frequently see my name up near the top mixed in with the winners because I out score members of the winning team while being on the losing team.

Bottom line is can only solo pug for so long before my threshold for ineptatude and idocy is reached.You pugs are truely aweful players yet somehow you feel entitled to beat better players..why? because why? please tell me why it is that craptastic players have this entitlement?

I hear the puggies blather on about how premades telling them to join a team is forcing them to play the premades way and not your way.

Well guess what partner...If you think that building a house with a rock and a pair of scissors is the right way to do it and you see a construction crew build dozens of perfect houses around your one shanty shack of crap you have been doing it wrong.

Is it the construction crew's fault? No it's yours for thinking you alone with a rock and a pair of scissors can build a house better than a construction crew can.

Your way isn't working pal..that is probably why we all have to listen to you all cry about it every ******** day on these forums.

So instead of adapting your way to a way that works you instead insist that we all have to try to build crappy shacks with rocks as hammers and scissors for saws.

You are in fact telling all those premade players who are succeeding where you fail that they must do it your way.

The wrong way.

[Ilwrath]

Novawrecker, on 01 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

The questions then remain: If can notice pre-mades. Can you also notice when your PUG team is disorganized vs. an organized one? Are you part of the problem and finger point, or part of solution of rising up, organizing, and taking steps to win the match with your team?

It is not that much about being disorganized. Bad pug players will have trouble with actually hitting stuff.

I am pulling my weight. Of that I am sure. Looking out for flanks and mostly don't mess up. But much too jaded now to take command or anything like that.

I don't see all these horrid disorganized teams when I play. You cannot get people to focus fire when they have problem hitting targets right in front of them. People running off on their own is not happening all the time either.

[Sifright]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

neither do I, and when the end credits pop up it's fairly obvious who the ones with good teamwork are.

you act like team speak isn't a hugely unfair advantage to majority of players who have never visited the forums and thus dont know about third party team speak servers.

Protip I use team speak its a huge advantage, to the point where a team of four using it can usually beat out 8 players who aren't.

If you really believe the premade players aren't looking for easy wins I really really don't know how to explain to you that you are wrong but the switching pattern from 8 mans to 4 mans within literally two days when people were getting their buttocks handed to them in the 8 man queue says it all.

I understand you want the better team work so do i.

use your energy to try and make pgi put in game voice comms at a higher priority because it really Bull that pugs dont get in game voice.

If you really are interested in 'better' games that is.

Otherwise keep telling the pugs they should just suck it up it states more about yourself than others.