16 replies to this topic

[Terran123rd]

First, kudos if you get the reference.

Second, I've been thinking about getting a raven, and so I messed around with the 2X in smurfy's mechlab:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c19d66f75d92ba1

Would appreciate some feedback.

[apostateCourier]

Terran123rd, on 01 February 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

First, kudos if you get the reference.

Second, I've been thinking about getting a raven, and so I messed around with the 2X in smurfy's mechlab:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c19d66f75d92ba1

Would appreciate some feedback.

It's way too slow to be viable, small lasers are bad, medium pulse lasers aren't worth the extra ton. Crank it up to maximum speed or bust. Put the largest XL engine you can in there, pop four medium lasers on it, and decide whether you're going to try to punch above your weight or go light hunting. Basically, decide if you're going for streaks or the SRM6.

Was this helpful?

Edited by apostateCourier, 02 February 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[1453 R]

Not a lot of folks that wouldn't get that reference, man

Anyways. The 2X is...difficult. It's generally considered the worst of the three Raven variants, and most folks would rather take a non-ECM Commando than either of the non-3L Raven variants to start with. That said...there are things you can do with it.

As Courier said, you need to be much faster than stock to have a chance, which means that you'll be needing an XL engine. The 'Mech also has very limited hardpoint selection, and thusly offers you only one realistic place to put your emphasis on when it comes to armament. Namely, lasers. Lots of lasers. Something like this:

Okuu

There's my 2X, or what will be my 2X once I get the money for an XL engine for it. It's still slower than 3Ls or any of the Commandos or Jenners, but it's fast enough to keep its guns on them for a good while. Without multiple missile hardpoints or ECM of its own, there's no point in using Streak missiles on a 2X - you don't throw enough of them, and more than half the time you won't be able to throw them at all. Instead, an Artemis-boosted SRM6 gives you a nasty little punch in close combat, as well as actually being able to fire under enemy ECM superiority.

The large pulse laser lets you threaten lights, mediums, and damaged heavies straight up, and combined with the SRMs and the backup mediums in the torso, you get a pretty nasty backstab against fatties. The LPL's going to be easier to manage heat-wise before too long here as well, which'll give your 2X a nice boost. Don't let the DPS numbers on the LPL fool you, either - you don't DPS in a Raven of any sort, you duck in to light off your alpha once, maybe twice, and then you're gone again. The LPL works well for hit-and-hide skirmish strategies like that. The only time you should be worrying about DPS and protracted combat is when you're dueling other light 'Mechs. Something you should try not to do too often, because Streak-heavy lights like 3Ls or Trollmando 2Ds will generally eat your face unless you get really good with that SRM launcher.

Still. It should be sufficiently dangerous to make you a legitimate threat in a scrum, and you'll have the added satisfaction of having people be all "DOOD! O_O" when they get their keisters shot up by, and I quote: "the worst light 'Mech in the game!"

Edited by 1453 R, 02 February 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[nostra]

I disagree with these guys. What you have is a decent close-support Raven build. With it you're not going to be zooming around the battlefield for capping on conquest or pecking away at an opponent's backside. Instead, you're going to want to use this build to support your teammates in combat once the brawl begins. Once the 'mechs start to bunch up and that big fight starts in earnest, you're going to want to come in on the flanks and help your more powerful teammates take apart enemy 'mechs. With an enemy distracted, your pulse lasers, small lasers, and SRM 6 are going to punch through their already-softened up armor quite well. I like it!

[apostateCourier]

nostra, on 02 February 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

I disagree with these guys. What you have is a decent close-support Raven build. With it you're not going to be zooming around the battlefield for capping on conquest or pecking away at an opponent's backside. Instead, you're going to want to use this build to support your teammates in combat once the brawl begins. Once the 'mechs start to bunch up and that big fight starts in earnest, you're going to want to come in on the flanks and help your more powerful teammates take apart enemy 'mechs. With an enemy distracted, your pulse lasers, small lasers, and SRM 6 are going to punch through their already-softened up armor quite well. I like it!

In a light 'mech, speed is life. This thing is slow, therefore it will die very very quickly. It NEEDS more speed.

[Reishiko]

apostateCourier, on 02 February 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

In a light 'mech, speed is life. This thing is slow, therefore it will die very very quickly. It NEEDS more speed.

Wrong. The difference between 114 kph and 130 kph is only 15kph, which in the game means nothing unless you are running directly away from the faster mech.

Pilot a mech that is slower sometime. Once you learn how to move and shoot, you'll realize that the extra 15 or so KPH does not translate to any discernible advantage at all unless you are trying to run away from the faster mech.

[1453 R]

The extra speed, however, can also mean less time-on-target for enemies trying to shoot your face off. The faster you can get behind something, the less time that Stalker has to light you up like a medieval roasting pit. And being just ten or fifteen kilometers an hour faster than your enemies can still be a big advantage.

It's also sort of a case of, why not? If you can find the weight/space for a bigger engine without compromising your armament - and since most lights can take both endo and ferro without compromising their armament, either, they generally can - why not get that extra ten klicks?

Hm hm, that and there are plenty of times where running away from the other 'Mech is precisely what you're trying to do, and every bit of speed you can pour on helps

[Stringburka]

- As said above, it NEEDS more speed.

- It also will run hot; 46% cooling isn't nearly enough even for hit and runs, and with quick recharge weapons like these you seem more like a flanker than a hit and runner.

- Investing in an XL engine IS worth it, and 245 ain't half bad (though the 250 is apparently a lot better, though unavailable for this model). It can be used in other builds later on. I'd swap the MPL's for MedLasses and the engine for a 245 - heat will be much better and you will be a LOT quicker (30 kph to be exact).

- One ton of SRM ammo is not much, it will run out quickly - I'd consider either getting another ton, shaving of the AMS, or dropping to SRM-4; you'll have less alpha but same damage overall and save a ton that could be put to lasers.

- I'd also switch the best lasers to the arm, so they hit better. No reason to have your best weapons in the worst targetable hardpoints.

- You have low armor even for a raven. That's just not... workable. Max armor on everything but empty arms and possibly cockpit.

- Since you don't have ECM, jump jets or a very high speed (130+ kph) and no long-range weapons, your best bet is to stick close to the big guys and let them take the pain, attempting to flank to get to the backs of heavies/assaults/slow mediums. Due to this, AMS might not be worth it.

Keeping general style, this is what I came up with:
RVN-2X
just 3 less alpha, but 61% heat efficiency, 110 max speed, more armor and more damage over time.
Either that, with 4Mlas+SRM4(1t), or drop the torso MLas back to SLas, drop a heatsink, and return the SRM6 but with two tons of ammo.
If you wanna be more safe and more of a support mech, swap the torso MLases to TAG+SLas, drop a heatsink, and add back the AMS.

Reishiko, on 02 February 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Wrong. The difference between 114 kph and 130 kph is only 15kph, which in the game means nothing unless you are running directly away from the faster mech.

Somewhat agreed (though 130 kph is fantastic for getting first to places) but the given engine has top speed of 83. Ouch.

[Reishiko]

Stringburka, on 02 February 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Somewhat agreed (though 130 kph is fantastic for getting first to places) but the given engine has top speed of 83. Ouch.

Ah. The post I was replying to I thought he was referencing the build that was posted 1453 R. I think he was talking about the OP build which I agree is too slow. My mistake.

Generally, anything over 110 is going to do fine, Obviously more speed is better, but the difference is less as you crest 110.

[1453 R]

That explains it. Heh, Okuu's booking as fast as a 2X is allowed to book, yeah. I would literally skin a man for those last five points of engine rating I don't get, though >_>

[Teddypimm]

Just throwing my hat into the ring here, I don't normally use the 2x (Normally a 4x pilot) but this is the raven build I am currently using.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...005cf1ca8d07e86
It doesn't go as fast as other Raven builds at 97 kph, but it's more survivable owing to the Standard Engine, and it still has a good array of weapons to return fire with.

[nostra]

Save yourself the world of hurt and NEVER get an XL Engine. I favor survivability over that piddly speed boost and weight saved any day. A light 'mech can't take much damage as it is, though the Raven is the toughest light there is currently, and with and XL all you're doing is saving a tiny bit of weight to get a boost in speed at the cost of survivability, robbing the Raven of its main benefit.

[Inveramsay]

nostra, on 02 February 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Save yourself the world of hurt and NEVER get an XL Engine. I favor survivability over that piddly speed boost and weight saved any day. A light 'mech can't take much damage as it is, though the Raven is the toughest light there is currently, and with and XL all you're doing is saving a tiny bit of weight to get a boost in speed at the cost of survivability, robbing the Raven of its main benefit.

The percentage of times you lose a side torso in a raven is in the low single digits, there is simply no reason to not get an XL engine for it. For lights speed IS survivability and for exactly the same weight you can get a 215 XL which is a fair bit faster but still too slow to be viable. The 245XL is only another two tonnes. The Raven and Jenny also have the same max armour but the Jenny has better hard points. The only reason you'd take the 2X over a Jenny-K is if you want to stick a LRM15 or 20 in there or you're grinding skills for your 3L.

The LRM15, 2xMlas and 2xSLas with 245XL is actually a pretty viable build. You have the best manoeuvrability of any LRM mech on the map and can still put out a bit of damage with the lasers.

As for the original build, bigger engine, change MPL to MLas and move them to the arm and a bit more armour. If you want the SRM6 this would be my build RVN-2X If you really want 2 more Mlas instead of Slas then take armour off head and the unused arm and a little off the legs and it'll fit.

Edited by Inveramsay, 02 February 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[nostra]

Inveramsay, on 02 February 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

The only reason you'd take the 2X over a Jenny-K is if you want to stick a LRM15 or 20 in there or you're grinding skills for your 3L.

And therein lies another facet of the Raven 2X, it can be a very nice long-range harassment 'mech. No need for an XL Engine and 81kph is plenty fast when you hang back and pummel enemies in the midst of the big brawl with LRMs or even a PPC if you can scrape the tonnage together.

[1453 R]

Untrue. That is precisely what I tried with my own 2X when I first picked it up - had delusions of using the 2X as a weirdly-shaped, jumpless pseudo-Valkyrie while I waited on my 3L - and I got eaten by enemy lights/aggressive mediums/cheeky Dragons while doing less than a hundred damage a match for my trouble. When the enemy's heavies are as fast as your light 'Mech is, you've got problems. I also couldn't maintain lock worth a damn in most matches, given the abundance of ECM and the high chance that my mere presence in the world in a light 'Mech gave the enemy better than even odds of having another ECM slot.

Light LRM 'Mech is definitely something the 2X could do - if LRMs still worked worth a crap without a prebuilt team, and if you were willing to give the enemy another 3L or 2D for it.

[Stringburka]

Reishiko, on 02 February 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

Generally, anything over 110 is going to do fine, Obviously more speed is better, but the difference is less as you crest 110.

Agreed. I just got speed tweak on my 3L and can't say I notice the 150 kph more than for quicker getting caps in conquest. I'm not good enough a pilot to make use of that extra, so probably gonna downgrade my engine and add something different instead, though not sure what.

nostra, on 02 February 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Save yourself the world of hurt and NEVER get an XL Engine. I favor survivability over that piddly speed boost and weight saved any day. A light 'mech can't take much damage as it is, though the Raven is the toughest light there is currently, and with and XL all you're doing is saving a tiny bit of weight to get a boost in speed at the cost of survivability, robbing the Raven of its main benefit.

Survivability doesn't come at 81 kph. Death comes at 81 kph. Heck, a speedy catapult can keep up with you, as will cicadas, swaybacks and centurions. For the same weight you can have 101 kph, and add just two tons and you go at 113 (and get an additional heatsink). If you're just using the 2x to get exp it might not be worth it, but if you actually want to win with it in the long run, get an XL engine, preferably a 245.

nostra, on 02 February 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

And therein lies another facet of the Raven 2X, it can be a very nice long-range harassment 'mech. No need for an XL Engine and 81kph is plenty fast when you hang back and pummel enemies in the midst of the big brawl with LRMs or even a PPC if you can scrape the tonnage together.

While I haven't tested LRM (as I'd just feel like a worthless version of a cata) I have tried sniping/support setups with ravens. For the 2x I tried both PPC, ERPPC, and 2xERLLas. For the 4x I also tried AC-2/ERLLas setup. The 4x worked decently to grind XP, partly because of TAG, but I wouldn't recommend it. Your damage output is to piddly to more than annoy people (which is useful, but not something I'd build a mech for) and you are very, very, VERY vulnerable to enemy lights and LRMs. Now this was with a 245 - I guess with a 220 I could've fitted some more armaments on, or an AMS, but would've been even more vulnerable to enemy lights.

[Ursh]

4 med pulse. 1 srm 6. You can also do 4 med lasers plus 1 srm6. Add more heat sinks or whatever you like to do.

That's the close support Raven 2x build you want.

Screw other lights, you're not a scout in a non-3L Raven. If they come into your firing line hit them, but never chase them.

The developers have been nice enough to make it suicide to run a non-ecm light against a commando 2D or Raven 3L, so welcome to the support role.