14 replies to this topic

[DaddyG]

Hi again, here i ask question for my friend, quick question from him: Why is jenner so unpopular? I barely see them. The D version, has 4 energy and 2 missile slots, so i guess 4xMLAS and 2xSSRM would be cool? Its also fast...no ECM, but still....also has jump jets...

Also comparing two commandos 2D and 3A, which one you suggest? Is 2D much better because of ECM, or should i go 3A since it has 2xLasers and 2xSSRMs. Maybe more balanced....

Basically im down to commando 2D or 3A, or jenner JR7-D...and most importantly i LOVE missiles, specially SSRMs.

Please no raven suggestions. And spiders are just too low firepower.

Thanks

Edited by DaddyG, 02 February 2013 - 06:38 AM.

[apostateCourier]

DaddyG, on 02 February 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Hi again, here i ask question for my friend, quick question from him: Why is jenner so unpopular? I barely see them. The D version, has 4 energy and 2 missile slots, so i guess 4xMLAS and 2xSSRM would be cool? Its also fast...no ECM, but still....also has jump jets...

Also comparing two commandos 2D and 3A, which one you suggest? Is 2D much better because of ECM, or should i go 3A since it has 2xLasers and 2xSSRMs. Maybe more balanced....

Basically im down to commando 2D or 3A, or jenner JR7-D...and most importantly i LOVE missiles, specially SSRMs.

Please no raven suggestions. And spiders are just too low firepower.

Thanks

If you're absolutely opposed to the Raven, go for the Jenner. Commandos are universally terrible.

[MasterBLB]

Jenner-D,definetly.

[1453 R]

Once more, Commandos are not universally terrible That said, yes. Go for the Jenner. You don't see a lot of Jenners currently because light 'Mechs without ECM are very unpopular at the moment, but a good Jenner pilot can still ruin someone's day with focused back attacks or enough strafing runs. That quartet of medium lasers is nothing to scoff at. Jump jets are in a weird state right now where they have the hardest time going up...but I've still wanted them a lot more often than I've had them. Just don't expect to be soaring over skyscrapers with them - think low hills and two-storey buildings, instead.

[apostateCourier]

1453 R, on 02 February 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Once more, Commandos are not universally terrible That said, yes. Go for the Jenner. You don't see a lot of Jenners currently because light 'Mechs without ECM are very unpopular at the moment, but a good Jenner pilot can still ruin someone's day with focused back attacks or enough strafing runs. That quartet of medium lasers is nothing to scoff at. Jump jets are in a weird state right now where they have the hardest time going up...but I've still wanted them a lot more often than I've had them. Just don't expect to be soaring over skyscrapers with them - think low hills and two-storey buildings, instead.

How aren't they terrible, exactly?

[smurfynet]

I played the jenner-d a lot during closed beta (founders), but now with all that ecm around the only jenner i'm feeling compfortable with is the jenner-f.

Here is the build i running with: JR7-F

[Regrets]

ECMando > other mando

It is not really even close.

[1453 R]

The Commando weighs ten tons less than the Raven, which means that it carries ten less tons of equipment than a Raven will. That's an unavoidable fact. Comparing the 2D, or any other Commando, directly to the 3L will, of course, show that it has considerably less survivability than the larger, more heavily armored 'Mech.

That said, there's no real speed difference between the two once they're sorted out with high-end modifications - which means that both of them are just as good at making Atlas pilots cry. Speed is the primary defense of both the Commando and the Raven, and each of them is equally good at it. The Commandos have fully actuated arms, which is a major point for some people, and the additional missile hardpoint on the 2D can be utilized in a number of ways the Raven can't mimic. If you like missiles more than lasers, as the OP does, then a Commando is a perfectly viable choice. Yes, the 3L is almost always a better choice given the current state of things, but that doesn't make the Commando a bad one. A good Commando pilot can be entirely as aggravating as a good Raven pilot - it's simply a lot easier to be a bad Commando pilot than it is to be a bad Raven pilot.

[apostateCourier]

1453 R, on 02 February 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

The Commando weighs ten tons less than the Raven, which means that it carries ten less tons of equipment than a Raven will. That's an unavoidable fact. Comparing the 2D, or any other Commando, directly to the 3L will, of course, show that it has considerably less survivability than the larger, more heavily armored 'Mech.

That said, there's no real speed difference between the two once they're sorted out with high-end modifications - which means that both of them are just as good at making Atlas pilots cry. Speed is the primary defense of both the Commando and the Raven, and each of them is equally good at it. The Commandos have fully actuated arms, which is a major point for some people, and the additional missile hardpoint on the 2D can be utilized in a number of ways the Raven can't mimic. If you like missiles more than lasers, as the OP does, then a Commando is a perfectly viable choice. Yes, the 3L is almost always a better choice given the current state of things, but that doesn't make the Commando a bad one. A good Commando pilot can be entirely as aggravating as a good Raven pilot - it's simply a lot easier to be a bad Commando pilot than it is to be a bad Raven pilot.

Bolded points in order:
-False, the Raven has more firepower and is harder to kill, and therefore more annoying to the Atlas pilot.
-False, as fitting enough ammunition to sustain three missile launchers will leave you undergunned, underarmored, or slower than maximum. None of these are acceptable, as you need a backup laser in case the ECM scales tip against you, you're already made of paper, and speed is the only thing that sustains you.
-False. If there is a clearly better choice, than making the worse choice is by definition a bad choice.

[Regrets]

Versus atlas:
2 energy hardpoints 35 tons > 1 energy hardpoint 25 tons

[1453 R]

You don't need a backup laser in the case of enemy ECM superiority, you just need missile launchers that aren't Streaks. A single SRM6 in place of one of the three Streak launchers does the job nicely and is noticeably more threatening than a single medium laser.

As for sustaining combat with all those launchers? You don't need to sustain combat. Your job in any of these 'Mechs once the scrum starts in earnest is to flank, harass, take capture points in Conquest, and/or generally make a big enough nuisance of yourself to disrupt the enemy and give your larger, uglier teammates openings. None of those jobs involve much more than one or two launches in passing against most targets - if you're sustaining anything, it's withering fire against a very distracted fatty's backplate, and you'd best not be staying there long enough for that fatty to realize he's got a case of hives he needs to deal with.

There's more than one light 'Mech in the game, man. Commandos can do perfectly fine. No, they're not as good as Ravens (or at least 3Ls), but "not as good as" does not equate to "absolutely terrible." Which is the point I'm trying to make.

[smurfynet]

1453 R, on 02 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

There's more than one light 'Mech in the game, man. Commandos can do perfectly fine. No, they're not as good as Ravens (or at least 3Ls), but "not as good as" does not equate to "absolutely terrible." Which is the point I'm trying to make.

I concure, i havend played a commando since closed beta and don't own one anymore but based on the time in CB and from a friend who still plays his commando 2d, the commando is still great.

its much agiler, and targeting with real arms is also nice to have. sure its a bit fragile especially against other lights with ecm and ssrms it has its place.

[apostateCourier]

1453 R, on 02 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

You don't need a backup laser in the case of enemy ECM superiority, you just need missile launchers that aren't Streaks. A single SRM6 in place of one of the three Streak launchers does the job nicely and is noticeably more threatening than a single medium laser.

As for sustaining combat with all those launchers? You don't need to sustain combat. Your job in any of these 'Mechs once the scrum starts in earnest is to flank, harass, take capture points in Conquest, and/or generally make a big enough nuisance of yourself to disrupt the enemy and give your larger, uglier teammates openings. None of those jobs involve much more than one or two launches in passing against most targets - if you're sustaining anything, it's withering fire against a very distracted fatty's backplate, and you'd best not be staying there long enough for that fatty to realize he's got a case of hives he needs to deal with.

There's more than one light 'Mech in the game, man. Commandos can do perfectly fine. No, they're not as good as Ravens (or at least 3Ls), but "not as good as" does not equate to "absolutely terrible." Which is the point I'm trying to make.

The issue is the amount of ammunition you can take without crippling yourself elsewhere. I like being able to fire my primary weapons more than 25 and 16 times each, SSRMs and SRM6s respectively. I would like to be able to fire more often than once or twice per minute in a long game. The other issue is, like I keep saying, they're made of paper. It takes an extraordinarily tiny amount of damage to take a Commando out of the fight- it's a lot like swatting a fly. Kind of annoying, but if your aim isn't terrible it won't be a problem for very long.

I'm well aware that there's more than one light 'Mech in the game. Jenners are the king of straight-up Light brawlers, Raven-3Ls are the best overall. Commandos make good target practice.

[ICEFANG13]

Jenner-K is better than the Jenner-D for most builds. Do not bring SSRMs unless you have ECM to back it up, or a teammate with ECM, who is not in a light mech (nothing worse than light on light and you have no ECM, while they do). SRM builds are generally as good for the Jenner-K, who has an extra module slot. Jenner-D builds are lacking in comparison. JJs are worthless on every mech that can carry them, even Spiders who float and die because of it.

[Gammanoob]

Commando 2-Ds require some decent tactics and planning to do well but they can be quite fun.

Of course as others have said you die very quickly if you end up in prolonged brawls with other lights, but if you can ambush them with a friendly or use your own "ECM" blanket or teammates to clear any lights off you, it is not that hard to do well.

Still in the field of ECM lights, the Raven is by far the superior choice. The Spider 5-D can be interesting with the correct use of Jump Jets but it like the Commando dies far to quickly to be a very big threat.

Edited by Gammanoob, 02 February 2013 - 10:07 AM.