37 replies to this topic

[Pat Kell]

You do not get money for damage done to friendlies. The reason your math adds up with total points done vs money recieved is because your damage total does not count friendly fire so when you see 500 damage done it will give X c-bills. The amount of friendly fire damage you did is not shown anywhere and is not added into your final damage total. I suspect that the devs may change this rather soon so people will be able to see just how bad they are at FF.

And I have gotten negative exp before when I made a bad shot and killed a friendly. was about all i did that match so when it ended, I was in the -exp. Still made money tho as the penalty is only 15k and you get more then that even if you do no damage or anything and lose.

[Chrithu]

This is all a mess. And I am seriously bored by the rubbish.

"Pre-Mades ruin the game for PUGs and Solos."

"Pugs and Solos chose to be in a disadvantage deal with it. If you can't: join TS or a Team"

"PUGs are so bad."

"Why are PUGs so bad?"

"I want better PUGs."

"Everybody join a Team."

"PUGs are bad because A,B,C."

"Pre-Mades need to go to theri own seperate queues, because A,B,C."

"We need voice comms."

"There are voice comes."

"We need voice comms in game."

"We need training grounds."

....

Please fill in any argument you're tired of hearing.

Feel free to point me to anything that actually is new to this discussion and actually get's us closer to a solution, If you can't just don't open another thread about this.

Edited by Jason Parker, 02 February 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[krash27]

No matter how you try to justify it, people are posting this stuff because they are frustrated with being pugstomped. Obviously there is a problem and trying to force people onto teams isn't the answer.

People wont stop posting their complaints until something changes or if this is working as intended, then I guess those people will move onto a different game.

Edited by krash27, 02 February 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[ferranis]

All arguments for not joining ts have been laid out, some people just dont want to listen or lose their unfair advantage and continue to stomp.

So next time some1 insults you with 'poor social skills' and plays the 'why dont you join a group and stomp yourself' mantra - the answer is:

**** you

[Spiderbite]

Skinny Pete, on 02 February 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

There is no issue with premade vs pugs. I can get in a team with 3 of my friends, not say a word and clean house. Though talking is a large factor, it's not like a group of four sits down and plans out the mechs they will be taking thinking it will make a difference.

This argument is a scapegoat for bad players like ECM is, and streaks were.

Skinny Pete, on 02 February 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

there are no exploits other than trying to sync with another four man. NGNG hosts a podcast where they use TEAMSPEAK to communicate while playing with PGI

People need to get over it and understand that if you fight alone, you're weaker than people that have social skills. On that note, if you choose to drop as a lone wolf, that is the choice you make and need to suck it up.

Mechwarrior is a team game.

and if you have a team to play with, you need to get in the 8v8 queue

[Ihasa]

krash27, on 02 February 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

No matter how you try to justify it, people are posting this stuff because they are frustrated with being pugstomped. Obviously there is a problem and trying to force people onto teams isn't the answer.

People wont stop posting their complaints until something changes or if this is working as intended, then I guess those people will move onto a different game.

But it is working as intended right now. The devs have said so themselves. There was even a specific post where PGI disclaimed they do not consider sync dropping an exploit. (Though it's a cheese move). Therefore people should stop complaining.

Edited by Ihasa, 02 February 2013 - 04:55 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Jason Parker, on 02 February 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Feel free to point me to anything that actually is new to this discussion and actually get's us closer to a solution, If you can't just don't open another thread about this.

Actually the "Stop saying you pug and get good damage because it's magically started counting the damage to your teammates." argument is new on me. So there's that.

[Chrithu]

Gaan Cathal, on 02 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Actually the "Stop saying you pug and get good damage because it's magically started counting the damage to your teammates." argument is new on me. So there's that.

New. But seriously it's not getting us anywhere either as it is just another part in the vicous cylce of one side accusing the other of being the devil.

I had my part in those discussions too. I'll admit it. But I'm tired of having to go through all this EVERY F'ING WEEK. I mean the number of purely dumb generalizing people is simply overwhelming. On both sides. The few sane people that are actually able to have an objective discussion without going at each other's throats are just dragged down by them.

[Navid A1]

Nahuris, on 02 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

...
You can not get an exp score of less than zero.
...

you can
you lose 150 xp for killing a teammate.
erm... and i can confirm it because i once had -32 xp at the end.

[p00k]

pugs are being pugstomped by other pugs, they just blame it on premades because it defers blame. over the last few days i've kept track of my solo pug drops, >10:1 win/loss, ~30:1 k/d. again, 100% pure solo pug, as either atlas (mix of D, DDC, and RS) or gausscat. hell, last two days i've done better solo pugging than i have in premades.

also have a smurf account that i only solo pug on, and even counting all the deaths from trying to claw my way out of the trial mech grind, that pilot now has a ~1.5 win/loss and >5 k/d (was about a 1 win/loss and a 1 k/d when grinding trials)

@OP, as multiple people have already pointed out, you're wrong. specifically, as pat kell pointed out, the "damage done" you see at the end of the match is damage done to enemy mechs. so yes, if you multiple your damage done by 25, you'll get how much cbills you earned for damage. but that's not because it gave you cbills for friendly damage, but because it didn't even count friendly damage in the first place

[Navid A1]

i think most of the problems caused by PUGs are because of various FPS games (which are not very tactical) and i think the majority of the pugs are in this category.

- in FPS games everyone dies with 2 or 3 bullets
- you can back stab an entire team by your own if you can get behind them on your own.
- you have respawn
- you heal over time
- you can play smart-a$$ and get a lot of kills
- everyone runs at the same speed

so imagine someone that is used to these types of gameplay tries mwo...well you know the results.

[Khobai]

Solution is simple:

1) Give PUGs all the tools that Premades have. Integrated Voice Chat. Ability to know what eachothers loadouts are. Etc... that combined with Phase 3 matchmaking will seriously help level the playing field between PUGs and Premades.

2) Add a new gamemode with respawn. So new players can learn how to play without being detrimental to their team and not be ridiculed by more experienced players. Make this gamemode optional so those of us who don't like respawn gamemodes don't have to play it.

New Game Mode: Deathmatch

Deathmatch would essentially just be Assault but with respawn and without bases. Because if you have respawns you don't need capturable bases anymore. The only win condition should be that the team that has the most kills at the end of 15 minutes wins. If kills are tied then the team that did the most overall damage should win. And yes respawns can be done in a tasteful way... since hot drops are quite common in the Battletech universe.

Edited by Khobai, 02 February 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[Feetwet]

p00k, on 02 February 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

pugs are being pugstomped by other pugs, they just blame it on premades because it defers blame. over the last few days i've kept track of my solo pug drops, >10:1 win/loss, ~30:1 k/d. again, 100% pure solo pug, as either atlas (mix of D, DDC, and RS) or gausscat. hell, last two days i've done better solo pugging than i have in premades.

also have a smurf account that i only solo pug on, and even counting all the deaths from trying to claw my way out of the trial mech grind, that pilot now has a ~1.5 win/loss and >5 k/d (was about a 1 win/loss and a 1 k/d when grinding trials)
place

First off I'm a solo pugger who really doesn't have a problem with the premades (I have chosen to drop solo, my choice), but I really have to call BS on this. This would make you the ONLY 'solo pug' to claim this kind of success. I have heard some claim around around 70% which is amazing and makes your second paragraph believable. The first, I'm not buying it over a span of greater than 10 matches.

S

[Nahuris]

p00k, on 02 February 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

pugs are being pugstomped by other pugs, they just blame it on premades because it defers blame. over the last few days i've kept track of my solo pug drops, >10:1 win/loss, ~30:1 k/d. again, 100% pure solo pug, as either atlas (mix of D, DDC, and RS) or gausscat. hell, last two days i've done better solo pugging than i have in premades.

also have a smurf account that i only solo pug on, and even counting all the deaths from trying to claw my way out of the trial mech grind, that pilot now has a ~1.5 win/loss and >5 k/d (was about a 1 win/loss and a 1 k/d when grinding trials)

@OP, as multiple people have already pointed out, you're wrong. specifically, as pat kell pointed out, the "damage done" you see at the end of the match is damage done to enemy mechs. so yes, if you multiple your damage done by 25, you'll get how much cbills you earned for damage. but that's not because it gave you cbills for friendly damage, but because it didn't even count friendly damage in the first place

Which I now understand ---- I kept multiplying things out, and thought I scored higher on friendlies.....
And I accept being in error, as that's how we learn.... but I was throwing out things to look at, because we have pages of people complaining about pugstomps, and I am getting tired of seeing the pilot disconnected pop up repeatedly, every match.
And I am not talking about crashes.... I'm talking about people that state that they recognize an opponent as only being a team player, and then disconnect.

I'm tired of every game having someone post "***** premade" or similar.
I'm tired of hearing it pop up over and over again, because this game is in Beta, and only improves when it gains constructive information to use towards said improvement.

And to be honest. one side screaming over how ******** they are, that they got beaten, and how it must be a "pugstomp".... followed immediately with the "oh, you poor anti-social child... maybe your mommy can show you how to get TS3" (that is an exact quote someone posted in a game in response to another comment) is killing this game. I am seriously considering becoming player number 61 in my group of friends that have decided that it's NOT WORTH IT to play..... sorry about all you people that put non-refundable money in.... we don't want to deal with it.

Let's be blunt.... this game was made to generate cash for those that made it. And while I am sure that the Founder's program did generate good cash, I doubt it was enough to fully finance everything....... and if you are turning away 60 out of 61 players coming to this game, and the other research ratios hold true..... you are only going to get money from approximately 1 out of 7200 people that try this game.......
Let's face the facts here - we are a niche group ---- and with other games out there, we need to keep players, not turn them away.

Some quotes I have seen on other forums compare this game to getting root canals without pain reliever.... or the new player experience as being "the fat kid in school, with your feet tied together, and trying to play dodgeball"

Some of the other phrases are even harsher.... describing this game as "the final nail in the coffin, to an antique table game, best forgotten" Others state, "Battletech was a decent game. too bad the current mechwarrior online version of it does nothing to honor it's predecessor"

I, honestly, think the pug vs. premade thing is overhyped, and ignorant... but it has become a belief in the system that premades always win..... and they win due to an exploit with third party software.

Nahuris

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Is this how rumours start? You get paid for friendly fire? What the ****? It makes no sense, so why assume it's so?

[Nahuris]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 02 February 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

Is this how rumours start? You get paid for friendly fire? What the ****? It makes no sense, so why assume it's so?

I asked, after some matches, because I had another person who quit the game claimed it as the reason he quit....
at the time, no one had an answer, so I started trying to figure it out with the hideously limited tools we have ---- which basically come down to multiplying number on the final stat screen. Since I didn't realize that I had done that much damage to the enemy in a battle where I saw my missiles impact a friendly, I figured that it had counted them too --- my average up to that point had been 350 or so, so when I saw a score of 486, it appeared that they had counted the friendly damage.

As has been stated, and I noted that I saw.... .it wasn't the case, it was just a situation of high damage.

Nahuris

Edited by Nahuris, 02 February 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[CECILOFS]

I've never actually seen a deliberate TK, but I have accidentally TK'd a few times. You get -10k C-bills and -ve XP but not sure how much. Definately not worth doing compared to winning the match.

As far as I am concerned, I'd just rather teams be more evenly matched to avoid 8/0 steamrolls. Whether or not premades were involved I'm not sure, but it definately seems like it when your whole team gets less than 100 damage and the game is over within 2 minutes.

If you really can't see the benefit of having voice comms and playing with people you know vs having to type to random people that may or may not even read what you typed let alone respond....well I don't know what to say.

Even a simple "I am in trouble here, come help" and a team mate that responds is all you need and sadly, its not always possible in Pugs. Either you don't have time to type it, or no-one hears or cares about you.

Edited by CECILOFS, 02 February 2013 - 10:21 PM.

[Chavette]

Skinny Pete, on 02 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

You don't get extra c-bills, and how is this statement relevant.?

If you could read you'd know.