14 replies to this topic

[CTsai]

Hi guys,
I'm on my way finishing my CTF 1X and 2X and now I'm researching how to build a 3D.
I'm more of a brawler as I pilot AS7-D and CTF 1/2X most of the time, and occasionally Centurion if I'm bored.

What I'm currently running on 2X is this:
CTF-2X
This thing is just absolutely brutal, as I can often find myself trading sulgs with heavies after heavies(sometimes even assaults if they are clueless enough) and still walk out of engagements alive

With the 3D, however, I picture it be more of a hit-and-run flanker instead of the in your face brawler like the 1X and 2X.
This is what I come up with:
CTF-3D build 1
I'm still a bit reluctant about slapping on a XL engine in there because it decreases the serviceability quite drastically. I'm not sure how much the JJ's have been nerfed since that patch a few weeks back so I'm still keeping all 4.

My second loudout employs XL and dual LBX
CTF-3D build 2
Again, keeping the JJs.

I suppose my question boils down to two points
1) Is it even worth it to have JJ's on the 3D? If so, how many?
2) Is the XL engine worth the risk?

[Shade4x]

CTsai, on 03 February 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Hi guys,
I'm on my way finishing my CTF 1X and 2X and now I'm researching how to build a 3D.
I'm more of a brawler as I pilot AS7-D and CTF 1/2X most of the time, and occasionally Centurion if I'm bored.

What I'm currently running on 2X is this:
CTF-2X
This thing is just absolutely brutal, as I can often find myself trading sulgs with heavies after heavies(sometimes even assaults if they are clueless enough) and still walk out of engagements alive

With the 3D, however, I picture it be more of a hit-and-run flanker instead of the in your face brawler like the 1X and 2X.
This is what I come up with:
CTF-3D build 1
I'm still a bit reluctant about slapping on a XL engine in there because it decreases the serviceability quite drastically. I'm not sure how much the JJ's have been nerfed since that patch a few weeks back so I'm still keeping all 4.

My second loudout employs XL and dual LBX
CTF-3D build 2
Again, keeping the JJs.

I suppose my question boils down to two points
1) Is it even worth it to have JJ's on the 3D? If so, how many?
2) Is the XL engine worth the risk?

1) Yes, 1 for quick turning, 3 for flying onto ledges, or over enemy's
2) yes completely, but not for what your trying to do.

XL is great for DPS or fast mech's. Anything 80 and over is typically good with an XL, the faster the better. If you run an XL, you have to adjust your play style. If your targeted, run behind your team and reengage. If your standard, twist and tank.

Your first build is good, but i would upgrade from sstreaks to srm4's. More damage and not dependant on lockon. Also try small laser, they are almost as much damage as med lasers at close range, but alot less heat and shorter paint duration.

Yea, absolutely keep the jump jets, just make sure you know how to use them. There for changing direction fast, and making your own stairs for places like the city that force you to run around the whole map to get out.

If you want a tank for the 3D, try a standard 280, AC/2, AC/20, 4 small lasers, or UAC5, ac10, 4 med lasers, or 2 ac10's 2 PPC's

[themoob]

1) Depends if you can use them or not. I've seen other people use them very well. But I could not find aw ay to use JJs on the 3D at all, mainly cos I've never really used JJs before, so I ditched them
2) Again, depends. If you're playing a brawler, then no, definitely not. Cataphract has HUGE side torsos, andi t already has heaps of tonnage, the XL engine isn't worth it. If you plan to stay at range though, it could be useful.

[Redoxin]

Looks like decent builds.
Personally I would drop the JJ and upgrade the AC5 to UAC5. Or maybe even 2 AC10, if you drop a little more weight (AMS and 2 laser for example, maybe engine 270 instead 280).

Dont like the LB-10X build very much, because close range brawling and XL engine dont mix on the CTF.

[Hex Pallett]

Cataphract simply shouldn't be used as a brawler. The massive pancake torso has "hit me" written all over it.

XL engine does decrease serviceability for a certain amount. You know what else decrease serviceability? Being slow. If you're not planning an AC20 or Gauss in the side torso, there's no reason not to give yourself some extra speed.

Screw those who claim Cataphract shouldn't run XL. All my three Cataphracts run XL and the experience is simply amazing.

[CTsai]

Shade4x, on 03 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

1) Yes, 1 for quick turning, 3 for flying onto ledges, or over enemy's
2) yes completely, but not for what your trying to do.

XL is great for DPS or fast mech's. Anything 80 and over is typically good with an XL, the faster the better. If you run an XL, you have to adjust your play style. If your targeted, run behind your team and reengage. If your standard, twist and tank.

Your first build is good, but i would upgrade from sstreaks to srm4's. More damage and not dependant on lockon. Also try small laser, they are almost as much damage as med lasers at close range, but alot less heat and shorter paint duration.

Yea, absolutely keep the jump jets, just make sure you know how to use them. There for changing direction fast, and making your own stairs for places like the city that force you to run around the whole map to get out.

If you want a tank for the 3D, try a standard 280, AC/2, AC/20, 4 small lasers, or UAC5, ac10, 4 med lasers, or 2 ac10's 2 PPC's

I'm curious about the UAC5+AC10 build+4ML build, hows the heat and armor looking on that one?
And does it have JJ?

themoob, on 03 February 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

1) Depends if you can use them or not. I've seen other people use them very well. But I could not find a way to use JJs on the 3D at all, mainly cos I've never really used JJs before, so I ditched them

2) Again, depends. If you're playing a brawler, then no, definitely not. Cataphract has HUGE side torsos, and it already has heaps of tonnage, the XL engine isn't worth it. If you plan to stay at range though, it could be useful.

Yeah i've never found out how to best use the JJ's since CB

Redoxin, on 03 February 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Looks like decent builds.
Personally I would drop the JJ and upgrade the AC5 to UAC5. Or maybe even 2 AC10, if you drop a little more weight (AMS and 2 laser for example, maybe engine 270 instead 280).

Dont like the LB-10X build very much, because close range brawling and XL engine dont mix on the CTF.

I'm not too hot on the UACs as they still jam way too often for my liking......as far as dropping two laser and ams goes, does it decrease my ability to stay in the fight substantially?

Helmstif, on 03 February 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Cataphract simply shouldn't be used as a brawler. The massive pancake torso has "hit me" written all over it.

XL engine does decrease serviceability for a certain amount. You know what else decrease serviceability? Being slow. If you're not planning an AC20 or Gauss in the side torso, there's no reason not to give yourself some extra speed.

Screw those who claim Cataphract shouldn't run XL. All my three Cataphracts run XL and the experience is simply amazing.

So are we talking about dual gauss long range builds here?

[Hex Pallett]

CTsai, on 03 February 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

So are we talking about dual gauss long range builds here?

I have an Ilya running dual gauss, a 4X boating quad-AC2 and a 1A packed with PPC and LL. All mid-long range fire supporters.

[themoob]

Cataphracts can brawl or mid-range support (I do both, and find they're equally useful in both roles).

They're a big target, sure, but they're not as big as any of the assaults, and have craptons of armour. They don't make themselves a target like Atlases do either. And considering many ballistics are designed for close range, or are a bit tricky to aim, they offer devastating firepower at close range.

Edited by themoob, 03 February 2013 - 06:55 PM.

[1453 R]

Cataphracts are ****-poor Capellan hodgepodge junk. Real men use Dragons.



ANYWAYS. On a serious note: both your builds seem rather undergunned for how slow they are. Conversely, they seem kinda slow for how little armament they carry. 64 klicks is kinda chugging for something that's supposed to be flanking and skirmishing. The jump jets help, but still. I know that I generally only worry about Cataphracts if they have at least three large(ish) weapons (large lasers, UAC5, junk like that). Or unless they have an AC20. Of the two, however, I'm thinking Build 1 is the more effective. As an avid user of the LBX autocannon, I can tell you with complete honesty that my beloved gun is junk It works well in conjunction with SRM launchers for, generally, fishing for component destruction on 'Mechs that've lost armor. Not crits, mind - component destruction. That and for scatterblasting lights and/or softening up targets for a suite of lasers.

[CTsai]

1453 R, on 03 February 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Cataphracts are ****-poor Capellan hodgepodge junk. Real men use Dragons.



ANYWAYS. On a serious note: both your builds seem rather undergunned for how slow they are. Conversely, they seem kinda slow for how little armament they carry. 64 klicks is kinda chugging for something that's supposed to be flanking and skirmishing. The jump jets help, but still. I know that I generally only worry about Cataphracts if they have at least three large(ish) weapons (large lasers, UAC5, junk like that). Or unless they have an AC20. Of the two, however, I'm thinking Build 1 is the more effective. As an avid user of the LBX autocannon, I can tell you with complete honesty that my beloved gun is junk It works well in conjunction with SRM launchers for, generally, fishing for component destruction on 'Mechs that've lost armor. Not crits, mind - component destruction. That and for scatterblasting lights and/or softening up targets for a suite of lasers.

Hmm so what are something that I should improve on either build?
dropping a few DHS and upgrade to a bigger AC....?

[1453 R]

Hmm...

Without jumping to an XL engine or dropping the jump jets, neither of which are things ye really want to do...I don't really know. The dual AC5/quad medium build strikes me as being closer to what you want, or at least as being better than the dual LBX build. The autocannons give you decent medium-range chipping ability, and the suite of lasers give you something to scrum with. You could drop the AMS and ammo for a bit more engine rating, but the speed gains would be minimal enough to not really matter. It's a solid enough configuration really, I suppose I just can't think of anything much slower than eighty klicks as a flanker. You could shoot for a max-rating XL in there and just play more gingerly than normal, but that strikes me as a bad idea. You'll probably do perfectly well in places like River City though, where the jump jets are worth a good twenty klicks' straight groundspeed anyways.

I suppose it's less about rebuilding the machine as it is learning to use its advantages. Hell if I know what they are save in the most abstract sense - being a real man, I use Dragons rather than Cataphracts - but you know the chassis by now. Just...be prepared to not get a lot of kills, I guess. Suppose that's what your 2X is for.

[Von Claussen]

Never run XLs in a cataphract. They look like walls and soak missiles like walls. I always find it amusing when one explodes after a single alpha. I would recommend that you build it for long-range direct fire support because the 4X does brawling better. Also, the jump-jets let you jump-snipe from behind cover and for easier headshots. Consider loading a gauss onto the thing.

[Tremendous Upside]

For my 3D, I've tried a ton of different builds. The one that's been far and away the most effective is 4MLs, 2 UAC5s (6tons of ammo). I also dropped the JJs to fit in an XL340 and some heat sinks.

[CTsai]

Just came out with another build,
what do you guys think?

CTF-3D build 3

[Frederick Steiner A F]

my 2 cents

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8468d578a659a0d

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a5cc5c233d8b611

or you just plug in 2 lbx10(3-4tons ammo) and a pair of mpl´s, 4jj, 340xl,400 armor, have a nice heatratio, good brawl speed, a good punch esp when using jj´s and enough punch if ammo is out.

the 3d is a good mech if you know how to use it. run, flank, twist, jump, bring confusing to em so your team can pull in and hammer them. and use every chance of a open back to punch on. brawl them so they just cant shoot you without hitting own team. use buildings and cover, you have jumpjets. rare in upper mech classes. never underestimate that mobility^^ have fun with this great piece of mechworks.

Edited by Frederick Steiner A F, 11 February 2013 - 09:04 AM.