67 replies to this topic

[w0rm]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Mostly when I have a solid premade on my side we will roll over the other side. Its probably good for xp and income but makes for bad games.

Yes we win most matches. But we win because our PUGs work with us together. The matches we loose (yes premades do loose to PUGs) our PUGs have horrible fittings, no clue or just wonder off to die alone. After all it comes down to simple mathematics 8 hostile mechs who rudimentary work together are going to dish out alot more damage then 4 peeps (even if we would use a balanced lance setup).

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Some are new and got no clue. Others are just horrid and got problems with hitting targets. I don't think its that much about refusing to works as a team. Its more about being able to.

Those who are new or just terribad would end up with a bad ELO rating thus the won't drop with premades or the top notch PUGs.

[Ilwrath]

w0rm, on 04 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Those who are new or just terribad would end up with a bad ELO rating thus the won't drop with premades or the top notch PUGs.

That is why the devs need to get the finger out and give us that magical ELO. That should have top pri.
I think it was a bad mistake to split it up in Phases. They should have gone ELO right away and then tweaked it from results.

What was the point of Phase 1 and 2? I find it hard to understand.

Edited by Ilwrath, 04 February 2013 - 05:40 AM.

[Cybermech]

if 8 man required skill instead of blob (which art strike should sort out)
I would launch 8 man groups.
however its quite boring and full of pilots with little skill hugging their base in atlas's.

Pugging is way more fun and even 4v4's or sync dropping 2x4....
I really miss the 16 group launch, you did not know what side you were on and the laughs were endless

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

8mans are incredibly boring due to the fact that you almost never come up against a "proper" team, its DDC's and 3L's, and if you are playing this game to have fun and not just to pad your epeen this gets really boring really fast.

Even more so than repeatedly stomping in a 4man, i'm mostly dropping in Pugs now and almost always in a crappy build because stomping is just no fun.

I seriously hope MM3 is gonna fix some of these issues, because as it is now there are 3 types of matches:
Stomps: boring for both sides, and is the norm for a Pug game.
8mans: a stomp down of the guys that didnt bring cheese, or cheese v cheese, which is as boring as stomps.
The very rare almost tie Pug game: Close calls with proper drawn out firefights, re-positioning and all the things we love.

about 1 in 30 matches are enjoyable, the other 29 just a bore fest where one side stomps the other.
If we had private matches, I dont think there would exist any queue at all, thats how boring it is atm.

[deadeye mcduck]

My merc corp are waiting for MM phase 3, as when we do 8-man, we always face the same 8 man team over and over. Which can get a bit boring, so were sticking to 4 mans for now.

Edited by deadeye mcduck, 04 February 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Ilwrath]

H8Bitter, on 04 February 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

8mans are incredibly boring due to the fact that you almost never come up against a "proper" team, its DDC's and 3L's, and if you are playing this game to have fun and not just to pad your epeen this gets really boring really fast.

And because the 8 man is not very populated they split up and drag their lamer setups into the 4 man que, polluting it even further. You don't see those 4 x ecm cheese mechs setup all the time tough but they sure are annoying when you meet them.
I consider the people running them pure vermin and vermin should get alt+F4 in return. They are also the only people that care about one less kill so huge bonus.

deadeye mcduck, on 04 February 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

My merc corp are waiting for MM phase 3, as when we do 8-man, we always face the same 8 man team over and over. Which can get a bit boring, so were sticking to 4 mans for now.

What kind of setup do you use to run in the 4 man?

[Joseph Mallan]

D-DC
Gauss, ER Lrg Laser, three SRM6 ECM
AL
2 Lrg Laser, 2 SRM6, 1 Med laser
4SP
4 med laser, 2 SRM6 w/art4
3D
2 Gauss, 4 med Laser

[Mr 144]

Sug, on 03 February 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Pretty much. Game is un-puggable from 10pm to 7am central time.

Whaaa??? That's literally the BEST time to PuG!

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

D-DC
Gauss, ER Lrg Laser, three SRM6 ECM
AL
2 Lrg Laser, 2 SRM6, 1 Med laser
4SP
4 med laser, 2 SRM6 w/art4
3D
2 Gauss, 4 med Laser

I hope you're listing what NOT to bring to an 8-man here...'cause those are not optimal builds, or optimal choices...the only exception being the 4SP only if you're forcing yourself into running RHOD format teams.

And yes...8s are boring at times, which is why we've taken to running 2x 8-man teams open to everyone for 'fun-runs' a few nights a week. Just something to kill off the monotony of 3L+D-DC 'competitive' runs...

Mr 144

[Joseph Mallan]

Mr 144, on 04 February 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Whaaa??? That's literally the BEST time to PuG!



I hope you're listing what NOT to bring to an 8-man here...'cause those are not optimal builds, or optimal choices...the only exception being the 4SP only if you're forcing yourself into running RHOD format teams.


Mr 144

Yeah... I know, but with them, I often end up in the top three, optimal choice is what works best for the pilot. In the few 8 mans I have dropped in, my builds have performed admirably. I will not be told you can only run this build cause it works best. I did some of the cookie cutter builds. I didn't like em. I will use what I like, and have fun. If I can't make it competitive matches, so be it. I didn't get into this game to play on Solaris 7.

[Bguk]

Yet another thread perpetuating people play with the people they know because they're afraid to drop in 8 mans. It didn't start out that way but it always turns into something else than what was originally intended. Hilarious really.

[Mr 144]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Yeah... I know, but with them, I often end up in the top three, optimal choice is what works best for the pilot. In the few 8 mans I have dropped in, my builds have performed admirably. I will not be told you can only run this build cause it works best. I did some of the cookie cutter builds. I didn't like em. I will use what I like, and have fun. If I can't make it competitive matches, so be it. I didn't get into this game to play on Solaris 7.

Excellent attitude seriously, that's cool:D I don' exactly run the cookie cutter builds myself (but I do have them when needed). I thought you were listing the common 'competitive' builds...carry on...

Mr 144

[soarra]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Yes. 8 man que was too hard so they ran to the 4 man que. Sadly the pub players got nowhere to run to other than to different games.

Its about time that the devs fix their garbage matchmaker. If Elo don't fix this, the game will probably remain broken forever.

its not hard its full of cheese builds and no weigh limit.

[Ilwrath]

soarra, on 04 February 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

its not hard its full of cheese builds and no weigh limit.

How about: "Yes. 8 man que was too awful"?

The 8 man que is filled with awful people?

Awful?

Tiny population and its awful. I almost feel sad for the devs.

[jay35]

Hades Trooper, on 03 February 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

4 man sync drops are the new flavour of pug stomping than to take on the lumps and bumps of a true 8 man grouping

Absolutely, and rightly so. Fighting an 8-man hardcore group with your mottled collection of 7 casual play friends is simply no fun. If there was an option to fight against only other casual 8-man groups, that would work. But since there isn't, why have a night of getting stomped and hating the game when you can instead try to 4-man sync drop or even just simply break up into two 4-man groups and at least enjoy the gameplay.

Until there's a way to set up a proper game, selecting/filtering maps, game types, and weight/class restrictions, there's little reason not to try to find a fun experience by doing 4-man drops (whether sync drops or just regular 4-man drops). It's about the only fun experience for casual friends right now, and generally nets 2x-4x better XP and c-bills per match than the waste of time that is PUG'ing solo where no one has your back and you rarely get people to work together.

Edited by jay35, 04 February 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

There's several reason's 8 mans have died down so much;
1. No weight limitatations.
2. It can be hard for some of the smaller groups to get 8 people on and stay on. 1 person drops do to wife agro, internet probs, etc, the 8 man is dead.
3. A lot of people were only interested in pug stomp after pug stomp to begin with, these people (IMO the majority) have resorted to 4 man pugstomping and they stand out. x4 DDC's, x4 Splattercats, etc etc

[Serapth]

H8Bitter, on 04 February 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

8mans are incredibly boring due to the fact that you almost never come up against a "proper" team, its DDC's and 3L's, and if you are playing this game to have fun and not just to pad your epeen this gets really boring really fast.

Even more so than repeatedly stomping in a 4man, i'm mostly dropping in Pugs now and almost always in a crappy build because stomping is just no fun.

I seriously hope MM3 is gonna fix some of these issues, because as it is now there are 3 types of matches:
Stomps: boring for both sides, and is the norm for a Pug game.
8mans: a stomp down of the guys that didnt bring cheese, or cheese v cheese, which is as boring as stomps.
The very rare almost tie Pug game: Close calls with proper drawn out firefights, re-positioning and all the things we love.

about 1 in 30 matches are enjoyable, the other 29 just a bore fest where one side stomps the other.
If we had private matches, I dont think there would exist any queue at all, thats how boring it is atm.

I am with you on this, except... play off hours.

The skill level of pugs seems to go up, and the presence of premades goes down. Leads to much more enjoyable matches. In evenings, it seems to cause a rise in both premades and newbies, a lethal combination.

A solid matchmaker should be priority number one... but it certainly doesnt seem to be.

[Andross Deverow]

Caleb Lee, on 04 February 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

Not really, our unit for one has pretty much stopped playing the game with the exception of myself and our unit commander. Why might you ask?

ECM and no tonnage/class matching/battle value system in the 8v8. We played 8v8s for about 2 weeks after ECM was introduced and then were sick of 6-8 DDC or 2 3L teams. It's stupid, OP and not Battletech/Mechwarrior in the least. Not even House Steiner fielded that many 100 ton mechs as a norm.

So we started playing 4 man drops and always a few are left by themselves either Lonewolfing or waiting for a team. Even trying to synch drop so we could play with or against each other only works 20-30% of the time. We don't care which, shooting our unit mates is just as fun and provides more of a challenge. That grew old...

So now a unit with several dozen players on the roster struggles to put together even 8 players on practice/scrimmage nights.

I just hope the ECM and round 3 of matchmaking will fix things ASAP before more players continue to quietly leave the game to play elsewhere. You won't see any of them posting as at this point they simply don't think anyone is listening.

Agree 100%, this is exactly why peeps quit doing 8-man drops..

Regards

[QuantumButler]

They're all in the 4man queue sync dropping like the cowardly little girls they are.

[Mr 144]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 04 February 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

There's several reason's 8 mans have died down so much;
1. No weight limitatations.
2. It can be hard for some of the smaller groups to get 8 people on and stay on. 1 person drops do to wife agro, internet probs, etc, the 8 man is dead.
3. A lot of people were only interested in pug stomp after pug stomp to begin with, these people (IMO the majority) have resorted to 4 man pugstomping and they stand out. x4 DDC's, x4 Splattercats, etc etc

I pretty much agree with this. The problem with #3 does not rest soley in evil intent however. It can be just plain fun to run 4 identical builds (degree of cheese is irrelevant). While yes, this will usually result in a pug-stomp, the inability to do crazy late night 'fun' things does not exist without the stomping by-product. right now, the only 'socially accaptable' way to have fun doing 'Ilya parties' and what-not...is to synch drop 8v8 with another like-minded team, or completely in-house.

I'll also add..
4. Efficiency. Everyone has to farm at times...everyone. While 4-man premades are the most efficient way to do this for most...8-mans are the most inefficient. PuGging is actually more economically viable than 8-mans for skilled players. Hell...with the amount of socializing that goes on in channel, PuGging is actually my #1 grinding source...NOT pre-mades.

That being said...rarely do any of the 4-mans I run even talk about the game during the match...we're BSing..laughing...having a good time. It's common for me to forget what mech I'm even in..lol. We also run far more than 4 ppl in channel quite a lot just to be social. Even IF we called out targets or coordinates, I wouldn't even know which ppl in which match was calling them most of the time.

Edited by Mr 144, 04 February 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[Mycrus]

in our timezone the only chance we have to play 8s if we drop against each other...

if you want scrims looks us up at NGNG TS3 server

this screenie from tonight's drop