123 replies to this topic

[The Cheese]

Kobold, on 04 February 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

It is absurd to me that players actively try to discourage other players from achieving the objectives.

I've got no problem with achieving objectives. Like I keep saying, capturing the base is still a way to win a match. What I've got an issue with is when the game comes to a point early on, before any contact between teams, where those teams have no real choice but to rush to the enemy base and avoid each other. It just makes for a crappy match.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about when a team intentionally runs directly for the enemy base with the intention of capturing it. I'm talking about when both teams take separate attack paths down either side of the map and then rush their respective enemy's base because neither team thinks they can get back to defend in time.

Edited by The Cheese, 04 February 2013 - 04:05 AM.

[Chrithu]

The Cheese, on 04 February 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

I've got no problem with achieving objectives. Like I keep saying, capturing the base is still a way to win a match. What I've got an issue with is when the game comes to a point early on, before any contact between teams, where those teams have no real choice but to rush to the enemy base and avoid each other. It just makes for a crappy match.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about when a team intentionally runs directly for the enemy base with the intention of capturing it. I'm talking about when both teams take separate attack paths down either side of the map and then rush their respective enemy's base because neither team thinks they can get back to defend in time.

In my experience that's a rare and direct consequence of the stupid habit of telling ECMed lights to stick with the slow assaults for cover instead of lettiung them do their scout job or of poor scouting all the way. A decent scout can get an overview of what's happening within the first 30 to 45 seconds. All the team then has to do is react to the situation.

And again this stuff happens so rarely it sure doesn't justify all the fuzz about it in the forums.

Edited by Jason Parker, 04 February 2013 - 04:13 AM.

[Wizard Steve]

If it happens, another round is just a few clicks away so it's of little consequence to me.

When it does happen though, it seems to be a function of map design. Maps with a large physical barrier in the middle (River City) tend to suffer from it more. More open maps (Forest Colony) tend to suffer from it less.

[Ares Morgan]

I think base capping is fine, the problem is that there is no c-bill reward for it, there should be something like 10-20k reward for capping, but because of afk/bots it should only be rewarded to those on the team that either touched the base or got a kill. The reason i was people that got a kill to also have it is because while they might not make it to cap they might have stoped the enemy from stopping the cap.

[LoboSG]

Ares Morgan, on 04 February 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

I think base capping is fine, the problem is that there is no c-bill reward for it, there should be something like 10-20k reward for capping, but because of afk/bots it should only be rewarded to those on the team that either touched the base or got a kill. The reason i was people that got a kill to also have it is because while they might not make it to cap they might have stoped the enemy from stopping the cap.

wow... it took 4 pages to come out with the obvious problem. That base caps do not reward well in terms of c-bills. I don't care about winning if my aim is to make c-bills to buy my next mech.

Edited by LoboSG, 04 February 2013 - 04:26 AM.

[Tahribator]

Just change the game mode to TDM for Assault. Capping bases are only a nuisance, leave the capping for Conquest mode.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Cheese, on 03 February 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

I mainly pug now, so this is biased towards a good pug game. Anyone playing the "well why don't you defend?" card would know,1) if they'd played a pug game, that getting said pug team to coordinate is a rare thing. Even rarer still when the most reliable way of winning is to completely avoid the enemy.

2)There are no such things as 'using your scouts' or 'setting up a defensive line' in a pug match.


3) Well damn. That would explain some things.

1) It only takes one mech to defend the base in most cases. Since the usual base attack is a light or fast medium hitting the base to turn a few back from the front line anyway. So defending the base is easy enough.


2) Yes there is. I have seen many PUG matches lately where the group mostly meets up in a grid and waits to see red blips on the map. The ones the Scouts go out and find.

3) Some of us were so good the first time they were hounded to be a husband!

Look, those of you who don't like to defend, Do you know if you defend your base PROPERLY, you will get that killer battle you want. For those who will eventually QQ cause of Camping. I will say it again, Defensive operations are acceptable. If you want a fight and the enemy is defending, you will have to start the fight you say you want! And If you cannot get back to your base to defend it... What were you doing? Scouts have the speed to look for the enemy Main battle units do not. Find a rally point meet there and wait for scouts to find the bad guys.

This is BASIC combat tactics people. You know the very first thing you learn. Plain and simple if YOU want a fight its up to you to prove it, the enemy is not obligated to play into your hands. Betty says base being captured you go defend the base and...FIGHT THE ENEMY!!!

It's what you say you want!

[Chrithu]

Tahribator, on 04 February 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

Just change the game mode to TDM for Assault. Capping bases are only a nuisance, leave the capping for Conquest mode.

How about introduce TDM besides Assault so I can keep my fevorite mode the way it is? Or even better get back the superior version with rewards for capping?

[ferranis]

2 Teams running around each other to cap the enemy base. Pure fun. (sarcasm)

That **** costs me precious 5 mins of my life.

[Chrithu]

ferranis, on 04 February 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

2 Teams running around each other to cap the enemy base. Pure fun. (sarcasm)

That **** costs me precious 5 mins of my life.

Want some cheese?

[SI The Joker]

ferranis, on 04 February 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

2 Teams running around each other to cap the enemy base. Pure fun. (sarcasm)

That **** costs me precious 5 mins of my life.

Hey well at least the "ME ME ME" mentatlity isn't limited to the US.

That's... something.... right guys? Right? No?.... Oh....

[Wizard Steve]

ferranis, on 04 February 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

That **** costs me precious 5 mins of my life.

If your time was so precious, you wouldn't be wasting it playing MWO (or moaning about it on the forums).

[VonRunnegen]

Not sure if its been suggested - but how about while capping you can't do anything? Make cap an on/off option that takes a small amount of time to switch between - then base rushers will need to have some guys cap while the rest of the team covers them rather than all just driving in and waiting. Otherwise a few defenders coming back will have nice easy stationary targets to either core from behind or headshot.

[Cybermech]

i have stopped plenty of enemy caps were its just a second away from them winning.
your point is right if you exclude fast mechs and distance from your own base

[Shismar]

I anything, the rewards for capping are too low. Assault is not Team Death Match and the destruction of all enemy mechs should be the exception, not the rule.

I would not mind if there was a true TDM mode, preferably with the option to not be dropped into it because I find pure death match modes incredibly boring. As long as there is none, I refuse to turn game modes with a tactical option into slugfests. If I can cap, I will.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Simple leave 1-2 at base normally mediums that are fast movers
Then make use of scouts
The read the first goal of Assault and see that it is capture the enemy base.


Now yes you get more money from salvage however killing all other mechs is not the number one goal of Assault or Conquest.
You all need to learn strategy and understand the first winning condition. Be mad all you want but two lights with quick cap ends games fast I make more from duo dropping and capping then doing one ten minute game.

Simple numbers are 3 minute game = 45k avg., one 10 miunute kill them all game = 107K avg.

For those that are horrid with math : 135k cbills in 9 minutes(fast capping) 107k cbills in 10 minutes (kill them all)

[Wizard Steve]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 04 February 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Simple numbers are 3 minute game = 45k avg., one 10 miunute kill them all game = 107K avg.

For those that are horrid with math : 135k cbills in 9 minutes(fast capping) 107k cbills in 10 minutes (kill them all)

But maximising CBills is the goal of only some of the players. Some want to win and nothing else, some are grinding XP, some are grinding their KDR and some just want to goof off. You can't appeal to players to play one way if that's not how they derive enjoyment from the game.

We're doomed to continue to have these discussions as long as the game remains multi-player and as long as people continue to behave as if they're entitled to having every player play every round the way they want them to.

[Juicebox12]

The defend your base tactic is rather lame and boring. I'm getting sick of dropping solo and seeing the opposing team being a premade group camping in a clump in their base. This sort of **** makes me drop the next game with my long range builds only to get criticized for being cheesy for one shot dropping pathetic campers. I say impose a 4+ minute timer where bases cannot be capped until that time has passed. Until they figure this **** out i might as well filter to only do point caps instead.

[Joseph Mallan]

Juicebox12, on 04 February 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

The defend your base tactic is rather lame and boring. I'm getting sick of dropping solo and seeing the opposing team being a premade group camping in a clump in their base. This sort of **** makes me drop the next game with my long range builds only to get criticized for being cheesy for one shot dropping pathetic campers. I say impose a 4+ minute timer where bases cannot be capped until that time has passed. Until they figure this **** out i might as well filter to only do point caps instead.

i was waiting to see this argument. This is a combat game, there are hundreds of ways to fight, and or win a confrontation. each one has merit and should not be critisized because it does not fit your model of how the game should be played.

Shismar, on 04 February 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

I anything, the rewards for capping are too low. Assault is not Team Death Match and the destruction of all enemy mechs should be the exception BUNUS, not the rule.

I would not mind if there was a true TDM mode, preferably with the option to not be dropped into it because I find pure death match modes incredibly boring. As long as there is none, I refuse to turn game modes with a tactical option into slugfests. If I can cap, I will.

I fixed the wording here for a closer fit with my take.

[Seijin Dinger]

I think it would be cool if the bases had a few heavy turrets that had to be gotten through, nothing that lights can 1 shot, or 1 shot lights, and out of the line of sight of cross map fire.