26 replies to this topic

[pistolero]

There is something i never understood ...

on a Hunchback HBG 4 G the Stock Variant AC 20 represents 3 ballistic hardpoints
on an Atlas D or DDC Stock Variant the AC 20 represents only 2 ballistic hardpoints

why the difference ?
it can nott be the "size" on the mech .... every mech got the same number of internal slots
and it can not the visiual size of the gun displayed in game

i am sure there are a few more examples of same weapons representing different hardpoints on different mechs


I just cant get the rule/logic behind it.

Or am i completly wrong and the hardpointsystem is just an "out of the blue" concept and never been touched again after implementation .... without any rule/logic behind it ? (and we are left behind playing with a first try till end of time)

[Joseph Mallan]

It limits the insane builds by limiting players from mounting 25 tons of medium lasers, or 50 machine guns.

[FrDrake]

It also makes it so different mechs can have different appeals. Honestly in TT the only difference between mechs of a certain weight were...........hmmm nothing really. Hardpoints give you a reason to buy one variant over another, which personally I like.

[pistolero]

you missunderstood me

it is not the question why there is a harpoint system at all .. thats pretty clear

the question is : is there any concept or rule behind the harpoint system ?




edit : typo and more explaining what i mean

compared to the system in Mechwarrior 4 it is .... hmm well ... not very logical

Edited by pistolero, 05 February 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[Suprentus]

Think of hardpoints like your external computer ports. You can plug a lowly flash drive into a USB port, or you can plug a beastly 3 TB external hard drive into one. Also, you have USB 2.0, USB 3.0, eSATA, etc.

Either way, you are limited to the number and types of ports.

Edited by Suprentus, 05 February 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

pistolero, on 05 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Or am i completly wrong and the hardpointsystem is just an "out of the blue" concept and never been touched again after implementation .... without any rule/logic behind it ? (and we are left behind playing with a first try till end of time)

The quantity of hardpoints is set for balance purposes... theoretically (like how all Catapults have six hardpoints, and the 4G in your example gets the extras because it only has three energy points.)

I am of the opinion that the system needs a good, solid balancing pass, but any changes that eliminate certain popular, imbalanced loadouts would make a lot of people really angry.

PGI is might be afraid of taking away things that players have been using for so long already, but it seems like they sometimes just have a really laissez-faire approach to game balance.

Edited by Warrax the Chaos Warrior, 05 February 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[Sug]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 February 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

It limits the insane builds by limiting players from mounting 25 tons of medium lasers, or 50 machine guns.

Pretty much.

[Xigunder Blue]

Game control. Modular weapons are for clans but we have to use IS mechs. They have used the hardpoint system to allow variants to existing mechs with canon loadouts so that we can have a customizable mechlab. Character customization is a vital part of MMOs and this is their way of allowing a variety of choices within the constrictions of canon loadouts.

[Redshift2k5]

There are no hard rules about how many hardpoints go for which weapon. Thee are no rules about how many hardpoints each mech gets, either.

It comes down to individual mech balance and promoting diversity. The 4G NEEDS bonus hardpoints but the Atlas already has lots of hardpoints so is in much less need of additional ones.

[Dagada]

no there isnt a rule or even a real concept beyond what the original BT devs wanted each mech to try to achieve. They set down a basic setup for each mech and then slowly added in variants. then pgi came along and took those variants and have since then in various cases added even more hard points to some mechs to make them more competative or versatile/appealing to gamers.

so no there is no real rhyme or reason behind the hard points at this stage of the BT universe let alone this specific game.

[RussianWolf]

The AC20 only takes 1 hardpoint in either mech.

[stjobe]

pistolero, on 05 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

on a Hunchback HBG 4 G the Stock Variant AC 20 represents 3 ballistic hardpoints
on an Atlas D or DDC Stock Variant the AC 20 represents only 2 ballistic hardpoints

why the difference ?

Sorry, but you're under a miscomprehension here. The AC/20 on both the 4G and the D-DC doesn't "represent" more than the one ballistic hardpoint it actually takes to mount one.

The additional hardpoints are just that, for additional/alternative weapons. If you want to mount e.g. two MGs beside your AC/20, or two LB-10Xs instead of it.

The amount of hardpoints and of which type a certain chassis/version has is a game-, chassis-, and version-balance question.

Edited by stjobe, 05 February 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[pistolero]

so the good old loved and hated Mechwarrior 4 weaponslot system seems to be far superior to the MWO hardpoints

at least for me .....

i prefer understandable rules and gamesystems instead of more or less randon "out of the blue" decisions

for those who dont know the "old" system i add a screenshoot

[Joseph Mallan]

pistolero, on 05 February 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

so the good old loved and hated Mechwarrior 4 weaponslot system seems to be far superior to the MWO hardpoints

at least for me .....

i prefer understandable rules and gamesystems instead of more or less randon "out of the blue" decisions

for those who dont know the "old" system i add a screenshoot

What do the color coding mean on each of those locations. Why are some yellow, red or green? i also see these as hard points, there are 2 weapons slots in each torso 3 in each arm (one yellow 2 red) and so on.

[Jamplier]

pistolero, on 05 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

There is something i never understood ...

on a Hunchback HBG 4 G the Stock Variant AC 20 represents 3 ballistic hardpoints
on an Atlas D or DDC Stock Variant the AC 20 represents only 2 ballistic hardpoints

why the difference ?
it can nott be the "size" on the mech .... every mech got the same number of internal slots
and it can not the visiual size of the gun displayed in game

i am sure there are a few more examples of same weapons representing different hardpoints on different mechs


I just cant get the rule/logic behind it.

Or am i completly wrong and the hardpointsystem is just an "out of the blue" concept and never been touched again after implementation .... without any rule/logic behind it ? (and we are left behind playing with a first try till end of time)

[3rdworld]

The only rule:

Mechs will be given enough hardpoints to create the stock builds. The rest is open to interpretation.

[Greyfyl]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

What do the color coding mean on each of those locations. Why are some yellow, red or green? i also see these as hard points, there are 2 weapons slots in each torso 3 in each arm (one yellow 2 red) and so on.

The colors are the types - yellow is ballistic; green is missile; red is energy (at least I think so). I believe there was a grey omni slot too, but I could be mistaken.

The beauty of MW4 slots was that it would have kept players from putting AC-20's in areas meant for machine guns.

I too fail to see why PGI wouldn't have copied the MW4 hardpoint system. It is way better than what they implemented IMO.

[pistolero]

different colors for different weapons
yellow - ballistik
red - energy
green - missle

-- later come a few other colors
.. dont know the color anymore combination balistik/energy
white - omni


it was a fantastic system to keep the mechs balanced and unique

Edited by pistolero, 05 February 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The beauty of MW4 slots was that it would have kept players from putting AC-20's in areas meant for machine guns.

Conversely, the downside of the MW4 system was that players could jam 3 medium lasers in an area meant for a PPC.

[pistolero]

Khobai, on 05 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

Conversely, the downside of the MW4 system was that players could jam 3 medium lasers in an area meant for a PPC.

i dont think that was to bad
at least a PPC stands for a lot of space used for energy weapons .. which is good represented in mech 4 i think