124 replies to this topic

[ProtoformX]

So... There's a huge amount of players that simply don't deal enough damage, and they act as an unholy boat anker for their team. Yes, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but damage does matter. Until you're cockpitting every mech you see, your damage output is a great indicator of how effective you were in the match. That being said, I know very few good players that can be effective in a match while dealing less than average damage.

What is acceptable damage output? It's different depending on the match weight loadout, and your mech class, but a good rule of thumb is 300 for an assault mech, and 150 for anything else. Those are BARE MINIMUM numbers. You can consider that a break-even point where you've done enough to exist in the match, but you'll need to go above and beyond that to win.

I feel that I've observed enough players to make a broad generalization about the problem. While this isn't true for all the players with a low-damage problem, I have a feeling the leading majority of them suffer from this: Toilet Bowl Aim!!!



Have you ever seen a player that fires their lasers BEFORE they put the crosshairs on the enemy, and then proceed to rake their lasers around like they're drunker than snot? I had the same problem when I started back in CB. There's a realization you must come to in order to solve this problem:

This is not Hawken. This is not BF3. This is not COD. Twitch reaction is not possible in MechWarrior, and you'll suffer if you try to play like it is.


1.) LOWER YOUR MOUSE SENSITIVITY. ****Huge #1 problem****
There's no bigger problem than this one. If your mouse is at 9600DPI and max windows sensitivity, you're not going to have accuracy, and you certainly don't need that speed. The slower the crosshair moves, the more accurate you can be. For MechWarrior, you can bring this down to a VERY low speed. The bigger your mech, the lower the acceptable DPI.

2.) Don't Panic
Take a deep breath and line up your crosshairs. Follow the target for a quick moment and judge the speed before you pull the trigger. This will give your guns the time they need to line up. If your screen has gone dark from missile smoke/bloom, look for the red target box and aim for the middle of it. Don't flail about when you're getting shot at. Yeah it sucks, and you may die in a moment, but you can at least squeeze off a few more rounds into the mech shooting you. This will help your team even if you die. Who knows, you might even take the target down.

3.) Continue to follow the target AFTER you pull the trigger.
Most weapons take a fraction of a second between pulling the trigger and actually firing their round. Lasers deal damage over time. Following the target AFTER pulling the trigger is a great habit to get into, and it'll benefit your damage output with almost every weapon.

[Ashnod]

Also important to be patient.

Also I would set te bare minimum more around 400 as an assault 300-350 everything else, with all players striving for 600 in lights and 1000+ in mediums, heavies and assaults

Edited by Ashnod, 13 February 2013 - 12:42 AM.

[KrazedOmega]

ProtoformX, on 13 February 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

Have you ever seen a player that fires their lasers BEFORE they put the crosshairs on the enemy, and then proceed to rake their lasers around like they're drunker than snot? I had the same problem when I started back in CB. There's a realization you must come to in order to solve this problem:

Some good points but watching someone play while spectating them might not be a great way to judge player skill. From what I've seen and read what you're looking at when spectating someone isn't a 1:1 representation of what that player is looking at on their screen. Server sync/lag or whatever you want to call it is playing a roll in what you're seeing.

I'm unsure if anything has changed since the netcode update or if it was even a real thing to begin with but from my view there can't possibly be so many people that are missing as horribly as what I've seen.

[Schutzer]

Ashnod, on 13 February 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

Also important to be patient.

Also I would set te bare minimum more around 400 as an assault 300-350 everything else, with all players striving for 600 in lights and 1000+ in mediums, heavies and assaults

Is it even physically possible for each player in 8-man team to reach 1000+ damage in a match?

[Thirdstar]

ProtoformX, on 13 February 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

2.) Don't Panic
Take a deep breath and line up your crosshairs. Follow the target for a quick moment and judge the speed before you pull the trigger. This will give your guns the time they need to line up. If your screen has gone dark from missile smoke/bloom, look for the red target box and aim for the middle of it. Don't flail about when you're getting shot at. Yeah it sucks, and you may die in a moment, but you can at least squeeze off a few more rounds into the mech shooting you. This will help your team even if you die. Who knows, you might even take the target down.

This is by far a hardest issue to overcome for newbies as opposed to Vets. Heck even Vets will panic when hit with a competent flank. That's the whole point of flanking and surprise.

It's really more of a learned response, only experience can fix this.

[One Medic Army]

Schutzer, on 13 February 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

Is it even physically possible for each player in 8-man team to reach 1000+ damage in a match?

1000+ is only if you're spamming missiles or get ammo explosions...
Reasonable number for pinpoint damage heavies/assaults is closer to 300-500. It doesn't take many 20-40dmg precision attacks to core people through...

[jakucha]

Stop bashing Hawken, it's a different game and fun in different ways. The player-base here isn't any better than there.

Edited by jakucha, 13 February 2013 - 01:04 AM.

[Elkarlo]

@ ProtoformX
In the German TS we perform something like "Lag guiding".
When one of our Mates is dead we swap into his View and say how far he his lead is off.

Because as Spectator you see the Lagshield. Or better how far off the user is thanks to Lagshield.
So as Spectator you can adjust the Lag Leading.

And thats the difference, when spectating you see the Actual point the Player is shooting at,
but you don't see were he AIMS at. Of course there are some real bad Shots out there,
but a lot simply don't adjust the Lag Lead. Thanks to Netcode improvements the Lead
needed is about halfed but it is still out ther.

And one Advice for some Shootist out there:
Don't try to Headshot somebody over more then 400 Meters, unless you have ping of 40 or less.

In shortrange combat it is viable but longrange you will simply Miss and shoot over the Enemy.
Go for the solid hit not for the fancy.

Edited by Elkarlo, 13 February 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Ashnod, on 13 February 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

Also important to be patient.

Also I would set te bare minimum more around 400 as an assault 300-350 everything else, with all players striving for 600 in lights and 1000+ in mediums, heavies and assaults

These are unrealistic numbers for most players.

A good rule of thumb is that if you did less than 200 damage. No matter what mech you are in. You were not doing as much as you could have. Most people should be in the 200-600 range for an average game. Depending on various factors.

Over 600 means you were doing more than your fair share.

[Dr Killinger]

Great points. I actually think I need to lower my DPI a bit, my aim is twitchy.

ProtoformX, on 13 February 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

3.) Continue to follow the target AFTER you pull the trigger.
Most weapons take a fraction of a second between pulling the trigger and actually firing their round. Lasers deal damage over time. Following the target AFTER pulling the trigger is a great habit to get into, and it'll benefit your damage output with almost every weapon.

I've been consciously trying to overcome this for something like 2 months now. I don't know why, but I identified the problem myself way back when, and have constantly been fighting my habits of setting a dead aim, shooting, and then freezing in my tracks afterwards. Sigh.

[Kotsuno]

+1 for truth. Having way too many assaults drop and barely rake past the 50 mark. Had a 5M drop and do 9 damage last night. I mean, wth???

[Elkarlo]

Btw for the Numbers of Damage:
When i do Brawler Pinpoint damage and kill about 3 Mechs nearly Solo i did 350 Damage.
When i do Missle boating on My Stalker i have 900+ Damage.
In my LRM Cat about 500+ Damage... difference here is Artemis. Every Mech contributes the damge for the Team.
1000+ Damage simply means: You are a realy bad shot.
Since the Netcode Fix i am about 200 Damage Points lower on average when i don't play a Missle Boat.
And i am doing about 100 XP average more per Game now.

Kotsuno, on 13 February 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

+1 for truth. Having way too many assaults drop and barely rake past the 50 mark. Had a 5M drop and do 9 damage last night. I mean, wth???

Happened to myself: When the enemy is on high Ground compared to the Stalker,
you can Headshot him quiet easy. A fact lot of Stalker Pilots don't realise.

Edited by Elkarlo, 13 February 2013 - 01:23 AM.

[Goldmember]

There is a lot more to it than just the total damage. Sometimes the situation requires a kamikaze attack, for example when there is a DDC walking straight into your LRM group. Then I think it is worth sacrificing an assault if it means I can kill the DDC quickly. You dont do a huge total damage done but you win the game.

But yes, unless you are in US or Canada don't bother being a sniper until we get regional servers. You will not hit moving targets.

[Vassago Rain]

jakucha, on 13 February 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Stop bashing Hawken, it's a different game and fun in different ways. The player-base here isn't any better than there.

Hawken doesn't really have players, though.

[One Medic Army]

Also, if your team walks over the enemy team, and you are not dead, then you are excused low damage values due to there being nothing left to shoot at.
Same if you get blindsided by a rogue headshot/6PPC blast/SRMblast to the face.
Just so long as you are generally capable of dealing respectable damage for your weapons loadout and tonnage.

Edited by One Medic Army, 13 February 2013 - 01:41 AM.

[Dr Killinger]

One Medic Army, on 13 February 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

Same if you get blindsided by a rogue heatshot/6PPC blast/SRMblast to the face.

Yeah. I feel bad in that odd game when I have like 90 damage, even though a Splatcat/Autocatton/6PPC is to blame.

[Snib]

Elkarlo, on 13 February 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

And thats the difference, when spectating you see the Actual point the Player is shooting at,
but you don't see were he AIMS at. Of course there are some real bad Shots out there,
but a lot simply don't adjust the Lag Lead. Thanks to Netcode improvements the Lead
needed is about halfed but it is still out ther.

True that. Some of the bad shots I have the impression are using joysticks or maybe game pad btw,would explain their extremely jerky movements.

Elkarlo, on 13 February 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

And one Advice for some Shootist out there:
Don't try to Headshot somebody over more then 400 Meters, unless you have ping of 40 or less.

As someone who habitually goes for (successful) headshots I have to disagree. If the enemy is standing still I always go for the headshot if it's a viable target. That means I won't try to shoot an Atlas' left eye out at long range but e.g. a Catapult is easy to headshot at any range. Once the target is moving I agree with you, having to compensate for enemy movement plus lag shield makes head shots unlikely to succeed, so aim for what you can reliably hit.

[Rauchsauger]

Very generalized.
If your team just ******* around in the back and gets LRMed and you need to rally them and lead the attack
you will get focused fired and die quickly without doing much damage - but you did the most important job in that match.

If you just happen to be focused early in game by a flank - you will die very quickly thus resulting in low damage.

There a a lot of reasons why you can end up with very little damage no matter your skill level at piloting.


Oversimplified assumptions on the game/tactics are a better measure for newbness in my opinion

[Mike Townsend]

crabcakes66, on 13 February 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

These are unrealistic numbers for most players.

A good rule of thumb is that if you did less than 200 damage. No matter what mech you are in. You were not doing as much as you could have. Most people should be in the 200-600 range for an average game. Depending on various factors.

Over 600 means you were doing more than your fair share.

The best rule of thumb I've heard is 150 damage per class. 150 in a Light is fine, and if you're in an assault you ought to be doing 600. I find that perfectly reasonable and shoot for those values.

[Dr Killinger]

Snib, on 13 February 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

True that. Some of the bad shots I have the impression are using joysticks or maybe game pad btw,would explain their extremely jerky movements.

There was a guy on my team yesterday in the trial Atlas, and he was either looking all the way down or all the way up, arms stretched to the limit. When he realized he was shooting the birds from the sky, he would all the way down and shoot the ground.

He must have been new, since he was in a stock AS7-D, and showed some form of cognitive thought, since he would try to aim up when shooting too low and vice-versa, but it was an all-or-nothing affair, as though the mouse wouldn't stop moving. I'm not even sure a gamepad would do that. No idea what was going on there.