18 replies to this topic

[FETTY WAP]

I've wondered why there isn't coolant implemented into the game already.
Wiki: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Coolant_Pod
Pros: Faster cooldown, less heatsinks needed.
Cons: Limited amounts, susceptible to weapon fire.

Also, it would be cool if you shot a mech's coolant pod out, coolant goes flying everywhere.

[Noth]

It is because the coolant pod doesn't exist in the timeline yet.

[FETTY WAP]

Noth, on 02 February 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

It is because the coolant pod doesn't exist in the timeline yet.

Ahh, oops.

[Z3R0115]

Yeah coolant and coolant pods were asked about a lot during the early beta stages too, From what I remember the dev's said at the time there is no plan to add any sort of cooling system as it's not exactly in cancon with the mechwarrior universe they are following? I'm paraphrasing from a while ago but who know's, dev's may decide to switch it up, the only thing I don't know if they implemented and they NEED TOO, is less heat bulid up when you're in water, or at least waist deep. It may already be in though

[Cest7]

Sarna doesn't list a date

[Noth]

Cest7, on 03 February 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

Sarna doesn't list a date

No it does not, but the references do.

[Oppresor]

During the discussion threads on future mission types back in December. Coolant was identified as a possible cargo to be used in Escort missions. Someone said its highly volatile and that it would be spectacular if the vehicle carrying it got hit.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Oppresor, on 03 February 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

During the discussion threads on future mission types back in December. Coolant was identified as a possible cargo to be used in Escort missions. Someone said its highly volatile and that it would be spectacular if the vehicle carrying it got hit.

It is hardly volatile. Inner Sphere coolant is however highly toxic and will cause a horribly painful death if splashed in a wound or drunk. Clan coolant is not toxic. Early prototype double heat sinks being redeveloped in the 3030s after becoming lostech was highly corrosive coolant in addition to being toxic though. The coolant truck escort was player suggested if I recall.

As for what the devs said though, they would not do the whole coolant flush mechanic you had in MW4 since it was not actually cannon and did not really mesh with the game play mechanics they wanted. Never said they would not put in coolant pods. They are a ways down the road on the timeline though so the devs have plenty of to decide.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 03 February 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Noth, on 02 February 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

It is because the coolant pod doesn't exist in the timeline yet.

"R&D Start Date: 3041 (Federated Commonwealth), 3055 (Clan Jade Falcon)
Prototype Design and Production: 3049 (Federated Commonwealth), 3056 (Clan Steel Viper)"
Tactical Operations, page 303

The IS (more specifically, FedSuns and Lyran units) would have them at this point in the BT timeline (albeit in limited numbers), with the Clans creating their own version later (likely based on captured IS-built examples).

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WTFClock, on 02 February 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

I've wondered why there isn't coolant implemented into the game already.
Wiki: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Coolant_Pod
Pros: Faster cooldown, less heatsinks needed.
Cons: Limited amounts, susceptible to weapon fire.

Also, it would be cool if you shot a mech's coolant pod out, coolant goes flying everywhere.

The specific question of Coolant Pods (along with the related question regarding the "Coolant Flush") was addressed in Ask the Devs 18.

Quote

Q: Have you guys considered adding Coolant Pods to increase heat dissipation of a mech's heatsinks when used? [vayne]
A: Yes, we considered and then dropped the idea. We found it more of a crutch and lead to more issues than it helped with. If you're in a long, multi-targetted single player game, it makes sense. In a player vs. player environment you get a MASSIVE increase in firepower for no cost, or it wouldn't be enough to make a difference (IE. the match would never last long enough for you running out of coolant to matter, because you've already killed two people. Or, it doesn't even last a single fight, then why even have it?) Does that make sense? [Garth]

The idea has already been considered, and has already been summarily dismissed.

[FerrolupisXIII]

Strum Wealh, on 03 February 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

"R&D Start Date: 3041 (Federated Commonwealth), 3055 (Clan Jade Falcon)
Prototype Design and Production: 3049 (Federated Commonwealth), 3056 (Clan Steel Viper)"
Tactical Operations, page 303

The IS (more specifically, FedSuns and Lyran units) would have them at this point in the BT timeline (albeit in limited numbers), with the Clans creating their own version later (likely based on captured IS-built examples).

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The specific question of Coolant Pods (along with the related question regarding the "Coolant Flush") was addressed in Ask the Devs 18.
The idea has already been considered, and has already been summarily dismissed.

this. its not a needed part of gameplay. learn to manage your heat, or build "safer" builds. we dont need crutches.

[Polojilarious]

Eh, the concept of single use, heat assisting items could still work.

Imagine a coolant pod. One ton, one crit slots. In battle, you can use the coolant pod to instantly remove 30 heat (or some percentage of your total heat) from your mech. Enough to fire another alpha without overheating, but not enough to keep you running through an entire fight. Each coolant pod can only be used once.

So, given how people generally allocate tonnage, if someone were to add coolant to a build, they'd remove heatsinks to make up the tonnage, so coolant-heavy mechs would have lower heat caps and dissipation than normal mechs.

And if they still manage to be overpowered, make them incompatible with DHS.

You could even add a cool visual effect for the coolant being ejected, like a big cloud of superheated vapor that'd mess with thermal vision. And maybe add some gameplay effects to the ejection, like breaking enemy missile locks because of the impromptu smokescreen or temporarily removing the cloaking effect of allied ECM coverage.

Edited by Polojilarious, 04 February 2013 - 03:45 AM.

[Alois Hammer]

Polojilarious, on 04 February 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

You could even add a cool visual effect for the coolant being ejected, like a big cloud of superheated vapor that'd mess with thermal vision. And maybe add some gameplay effects to the ejection, like breaking enemy missile locks because of the impromptu smokescreen or temporarily removing the cloaking effect of allied ECM coverage.

So basically make them incomaptible with [Enhanced, but not really Double] Heat Sinks so they're not OverPowered, while making them LOLOverPowered by making them a sort of a universal solution to missile locks and ECM.


I think the devs nailed it when they summarily dismissed the idea. Kudos to them.

[MoPo]

Z3R0115, on 03 February 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

I'm paraphrasing from a while ago but who know's, dev's may decide to switch it up, the only thing I don't know if they implemented and they NEED TOO, is less heat bulid up when you're in water, or at least waist deep. It may already be in though

I'm pretty sure this is already in, in the deeper sections of River City and Forest. Heat Sinks in legs work more efficiently when submerged (there are a couple of parts of River City where Commandos can completely hide).

Can't remember where the Dev post was though.

[Polojilarious]

Alois Hammer, on 04 February 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

So basically make them incomaptible with [Enhanced, but not really Double] Heat Sinks so they're not OverPowered, while making them LOLOverPowered by making them a sort of a universal solution to missile locks and ECM.


I think the devs nailed it when they summarily dismissed the idea. Kudos to them.

Sigh. The LRM thing was just a random idea in the vein of chaff in other games, and I don't think I explained the ECM thing very well. Neither were very important to the core concept, just other ways coolant could interact with existing mechanics.

To clarify the ECM thing: The idea was that if you were cloaked (as in, staying near your friendly ECM atlas) and used coolant, the huge cloud of vaporized coolant you released would mess with the cloaking, revealing you to enemies for a short time. As in, using it at the wrong time would basically be painting a huge target on yourself.

And spending a ton and crit slot to break an enemy missile lock once per game is hardly overpowered, and enemies would be able to begin locking onto you again immediately after the lock is broken. Timed right, you'd lose the lock long enough to have the missiles hit the ground behind you. Timed wrong, they'd regain their lock, the missiles would still hit you, and you'd have wasted a dose of coolant.

I don't know. I think it would be a cool system to play with, and I can see situations where coolant might make SHS a legitimate choice over DHS. Done properly, it'd make an interesting choice that offers players a wider variety of ways to build their mechs and play the game.

[Bobfrombobtown]

Z3R0115, on 03 February 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

Yeah coolant and coolant pods were asked about a lot during the early beta stages too, From what I remember the dev's said at the time there is no plan to add any sort of cooling system as it's not exactly in cancon with the mechwarrior universe they are following? I'm paraphrasing from a while ago but who know's, dev's may decide to switch it up, the only thing I don't know if they implemented and they NEED TOO, is less heat bulid up when you're in water, or at least waist deep. It may already be in though

You do cool faster in water IF and only IF you have heatsinks in your legs. Obviously you cannot use double heatsinks in the legs so... there's that.

[INSEkT L0GIC]

Bobfrombobtown, on 04 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

You do cool faster in water IF and only IF you have heatsinks in your legs. Obviously you cannot use double heatsinks in the legs so... there's that.

Currently yes.. Until clan tech with clan tech DHS (take up 2 slots each instead of 3 of IS DHS)..

[Strum Wealh]

Polojilarious, on 04 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Sigh. The LRM thing was just a random idea in the vein of chaff in other games, and I don't think I explained the ECM thing very well. Neither were very important to the core concept, just other ways coolant could interact with existing mechanics.

To clarify the ECM thing: The idea was that if you were cloaked (as in, staying near your friendly ECM atlas) and used coolant, the huge cloud of vaporized coolant you released would mess with the cloaking, revealing you to enemies for a short time. As in, using it at the wrong time would basically be painting a huge target on yourself.

And spending a ton and crit slot to break an enemy missile lock once per game is hardly overpowered, and enemies would be able to begin locking onto you again immediately after the lock is broken. Timed right, you'd lose the lock long enough to have the missiles hit the ground behind you. Timed wrong, they'd regain their lock, the missiles would still hit you, and you'd have wasted a dose of coolant.

I don't know. I think it would be a cool system to play with, and I can see situations where coolant might make SHS a legitimate choice over DHS. Done properly, it'd make an interesting choice that offers players a wider variety of ways to build their mechs and play the game.

"Coolants differ between heat sinks, depending on the manufacturer. Oils, chlorofluorocarbons, water-based solutions, liquid nitrogen, gaseous nitrogen, gaseous helium and other coolants are used. No, you won’t see molten metals like the Tharkad City fusion engine. Those are simply too hazardous in combat." (TechManual, pg 38)

Recall, the Devs are taking into account that some things should "make sense", or have sufficiently-solid in-universe explanations - thus, why those ballistic weapons that have minimum ranges in TT (AC/2, AC/5, and Gauss Rifle) don't have them in MWO.

Given that the coolant types listed (which are generally the same types of coolant used in reality) are not metallic or magnetic, there is no reason why the expelled coolant would interfere with radar or ECM systems.
If anything, the expelled coolant - a large, hot cloud of vapor - would make one even more visible to thermal sensors and (if/when implemented) heat-seeking warheads, which would make one even more easily targeted when opponents are using such sensors and weapons.

So, aside from the Devs themselves having already said "no" to the whole coolant mechanic, why would/should ejecting coolant have any detrimental effect on any electronic system?

[Mechteric]

not really needed, if you get enough double heat sinks on a mech its heat will drop insanely fast already anyway. Just gotta lay off the trigger once in a while!

[Oppresor]

I remember the tactic well. Alpha Strike, Alpha Strike, Coolant Flush, Alpha Strike, Alpha Strike etc. All this was possible and got me out of more than a few iffy situations in MW4 where we had Coolant Flush. I know this tactic if frowned upon, but in a lot of cases it can work; especially if you Flush before your systems shutdown.