68 replies to this topic

[StalaggtIKE]

Fooooo, on 07 February 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Does a gauss rifle explosion get called an ammo explosion in the combat log ???

Probably so. I do know that a crit GR goes boom, while its ammo does not.

[Kargarok]

twibs, on 07 February 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Afaik ammo explosion does damage equal to the REMAINDER of the ammo that exploded.

So let's take a full stack of 100 SRM missiles, that's 250 damage to your arm, (20-ish at most internal structure, so that's still leaves over 200 to be transferred to your left torso.

Wow! It's that much? Dang. As I understand it, without case, any remaining damage can then move on to your CT.

So if 200 is transfered to LT, then I don't know how many points of damage it takes to destroy that component but let's say a generous 100, that would still be 100 transfered to CT. Even if you run STD engines that should knock you out pretty fast.

Ammo in your arm on a Catapault is a bad idea it seems, since everyone aims for those these days. Or put a case in the nearby torso part. That should stop the dmg there. I think?

[KageRyuu]

StalaggtIKE, on 07 February 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Probably so. I do know that a crit GR goes boom, while its ammo does not.

It does, the idea behind it is that the Gauss Rifle uses some rather explosive capacitors to launch it's metal and thus inert ammunition down range, though a Gauss Rifle exploding should only do 15 damage. hardly enough to kill most mechs outright.

Kargarok, on 07 February 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Wow! It's that much? Dang. As I understand it, without case, any remaining damage can then move on to your CT.

So if 200 is transfered to LT, then I don't know how many points of damage it takes to destroy that component but let's say a generous 100, that would still be 100 transfered to CT. Even if you run STD engines that should knock you out pretty fast.

Ammo in your arm on a Catapault is a bad idea it seems, since everyone aims for those these days. Or put a case in the nearby torso part. That should stop the dmg there. I think?

Should, not entirely certain if ti'll save your side torso as well, but it should definitely save your center torso.


So in short, not a bug but a feature working as intended and the main argument for CASE.

Edited by KageRyuu, 07 February 2013 - 10:02 AM.

[Xendojo]

But what about ammo being destroyed and taking no damage?

Does ammo always explode, or is it just a chance? Because since the last patch i have been losing ammo to crits, and not taking damage from it. Betty will say *AC/20 ammo destroyed* and ill have less shots remaining, but I will not suffer an ammo explosion.

I have seen this happen several times now, with AC, LRM, and S/SRM(that's both types of SRM ammo).

[Jonathan Paine]

Ammo explosions is one of the few things that limit the deadly SRM6 Catapults - I love playing the "where did he hide the ammo" game myself...."is it in the leg?" "nope, but look at him hopping around"

[Twisted Power]

Fooooo, on 07 February 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Does a gauss rifle explosion get called an ammo explosion in the combat log ???

Yes

[Mercules]

Yep... Ammo crit in arm can go, Right Arm - Gone, Right Torso - Gone, Center Torso - Gone. Which is a reason in TT you take what you need and not much more or put it where there is CASE. CASE forces ammo exploding in the area to wipe that area out but vent any excess damage so it doesn't continue.

Storing ammo in your arms means you are skipping the CASE and making it easier to hit in most cases.

[azov]

http://i.imgur.com/bdQ2cm2.jpg

No I was not overheated. Only fired a few rounds of AC10. If it was overheat all the internals would have taken damage.

I just randomly died, from myself.

[Polojilarious]

Muggins, on 07 February 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

At time of writing, I believe this is working correctly.

Damage will transfer from one part to another, and then another if there was enough damage sustained by the ammo explosion. All remaining unspent ammo detonates. So lets say you're a LRM boat with 800 ammo remaining in an arm. It goes pop... well... thats 800*1.6 dmg to transfer to the side torso and then the centre torso.

That seems like a little a bit too much damage. I mean, outside of narc and AMS ammo, a single ton of any kind of ammo will do over 100 damage, with most autocannon stuff hanging around at 150 and missiles at around 250.

I don't know exactly how much internal HP the mechs have, but if they're anything like the armour values, a single ton of srm ammo in an arm would be enough core an otherwise unharmed atlas.

And, obviously, most ammo reliant builds carry a lot more than a single ton of ammo.

So, are ammo explosions supposed to be a guaranteed death?


I mean, I don't play tabletop, but isn't it that there's a chance for each remaining shot to explode when a ton of ammo is critted, instead of it all just exploding? like, only a percentage of remaining ammo would explode?

Oh, and another question: If an arm, leg, or side torso is destroyed, does all of the ammo within automatically explode? And if it does, does that damage still transfer in? I mean, damage transfer would make sense with torsos and legs, but the arms actually get ripped off, why would exploding ammo in my dismembered arm hurt my side torso?

Edited by Polojilarious, 07 February 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[azov]

Niko Snow, on 07 February 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Here is a poll: http://mwomercs.com/...e-death-screen/

I noticed you moved my post. My death is not quite the same. I died from engine destruction. I have no ammo died there. My CT contains an xl255 and 2 med pulse. I have ammo stored in my legs and with the weapons

[twibs]

Now that we're discussing this. does ammo/gauss explosion skip the armor and go directly to internal parts?

Since once in my CTF-3D I had my gauss explode in my arm and then my PPC in the torso got also wiped, with full armor on both sides.

Muggins, on 07 February 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

At time of writing, I believe this is working correctly.

Damage will transfer from one part to another, and then another if there was enough damage sustained by the ammo explosion. All remaining unspent ammo detonates. So lets say you're a LRM boat with 800 ammo remaining in an arm. It goes pop... well... thats 800*1.6 dmg to transfer to the side torso and then the centre torso.

I don't believe anything related to damage transfer changed in this patch, apart from its now much more obvious when this occurs. Previously deaths in prior builds would likely have been written off as some other cause.

Hmm, I thought they went stack by stack. So if you crit one stack, that pretty much destroys the part and the rest of the ammo without explosion. Still, that's still a good 1,6 x 180 damage to be transferred.

[Myandriss]

Several times now while running a match I've found myself killed with the message "Killed by Ammo Explosion"

The only problem is, the part of my mech being destroyed only houses 1 Medium Laser and 3 tons of Gauss Ammo. Now I AM running an XL engine in that particular build so I'm not sure if it's registering the XL destruction as an Ammo Explosion or not.

This is of course assuming I'm correct in that the paper doll for my mech during a match is right to left in orientation as it is in the Mech Lab.

[Skadi]

Its a bug, gauss ammo doesnt explode but a gauss rifle does, when a guass rifle explodes the game things its a ammo explosion, and counts it as so.

[Rattazustra]

He said "the part of my mech being destroyed only houses 1 Medium Laser and 3 tons of Gauss Ammo."

Thus there just was no Gauss Rifle in that location that could have been mistaken for an ammo explosion. The only options are either that the Gauss Ammo did explode, or his XL engine.

[Ceesa]

When an ammo explosion takes out your XL engine, the death screen registers that you died from an ammo explosion. So it's your gauss ammo going boom.

[Ashnod]

WNxFireDrake, on 10 February 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

When an ammo explosion takes out your XL engine, the death screen registers that you died from an ammo explosion. So it's your gauss ammo going boom.

Gauss ammo doesn't explode...

[Watchit]

It's a known bug that gauss rifle explosions are erroneously recorded as "ammo explosions"

Internal explosions from ammo and gauss rifles spread from one component to the next adjacent component.

For example if your gauss rifle was in your right arm and exploded, it does 20 damage, if your right arm only had 3 health left the remaining 17 damage from the explosion would spread to your right side torso, potentially destroying it.

[MILESPARVUS]

Polojilarious, on 07 February 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

So, are ammo explosions supposed to be a guaranteed death?


I mean, I don't play tabletop, but isn't it that there's a chance for each remaining shot to explode when a ton of ammo is critted, instead of it all just exploding? like, only a percentage of remaining ammo would explode?


Oh, and another question: If an arm, leg, or side torso is destroyed, does all of the ammo within automatically explode? And if it does, does that damage still transfer in? I mean, damage transfer would make sense with torsos and legs, but the arms actually get ripped off, why would exploding ammo in my dismembered arm hurt my side torso?

I haven't played in a while, so I looked it up. In TT, one critical hit on an ammunition slot will cause all the remaining ammunition stored in that location to explode, and an overheat situation will cause all ammunition carried in the mech to go boom, starting with the most destructive ammo and working down.

A crit will not cause ammunition stored in other locations to explode, but unless it's late in the game and everyone is low on ammo it's usually curtains for that mech. And it normally happened to me on the most embarrassing of rolls. Most of my ammo explosions have happened due to the first ammo overheat roll, which is avoided on 4+ on 2 dice. I am fairly sure dice hate me.

And having rediscovered that, I really should spread the ammo in my Hunchback 4G a bit more....

Edit: missed this that I can answer....

twibs, on 07 February 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

Now that we're discussing this. does ammo/gauss explosion skip the armor and go directly to internal parts?

Since once in my CTF-3D I had my gauss explode in my arm and then my PPC in the torso got also wiped, with full armor on both sides.

A gauss/ammo explosion will be applied directly to the internal structure and if that is destroyed the section is destroyed regardless of how much armour remains. But you shouldn't be taking crits until either the front or back armour on that location is gone and receive hits to an unarmoured location. Though I am fairly sure I have taken critical damage whilst still having armour on all parts, so I'm not sure if MWO adheres strictly to that.

Edited by Kiskatona, 11 February 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[StUffz]

Ashnod, on 10 February 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Gauss ammo doesn't explode...

This should be the only thing what the Devs should focus on. Gauss Ammo does not explode. End of story.

[Redoxin]

Yeah obvously explosion of the Gauss rifle is called "ammo explosion" in the combat log. Or has anyone ever seen "gauss rifle explosion" appear? No reason to be confused here.
The gauss rifle explosion does 20 damage btw according to a dev post I read here.